Podcast

Overstuffing: What If My Baby Takes Big Bites? with Dawn Winkelmann, MS, CCC-SLP

  • What is overstuffing? I actually thought it was a term Dawn made up, but in SLP/swallow land it's a real thing, and Dawn shares what we're looking for when we say “overstuffing”
  • How her 3-strip approach can help slow your baby down (without you having to intervene in baby actively self-feeding)
  • The progression of different “chews” babies learn from munch chew to rotary chew and also why having baby's feet resting flat on a solid footrest can help reduce overstuffing (and prevent choking).

LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE

Episode Description

Anyone have an overstuffer on their hands? Do you know the type of baby I’m talking about? SUPER eager about eating (a good thing…) but also kind of scary and you’re worried your baby might choke (a bad thing…)?

Well in today’s episode I’ve got speech language pathologist and pediatric swallowing expert Dawn Winkelmann, MS, CCC-SLP joining me to talk about some practical ways to handle over-stuffing.

If your baby eats fast or takes big bites and you’re not sure whether or not this is safe or what to do...Ms. Dawn has you covered with tons of tips, exercises and scripts for handling some of these panic-inducing moments.

About the Guest

  • Dawn Winkelmann, MS, CCC-SLP is a speech language pathologist specializing in pediatric swallowing
  • She is the award-winning product designer for EZPZ and created the Tiny Cup and Tiny Spoons for baby-led weaning
  • Dawn is passionate about helping babies start solid foods safely

Links from this Episode

Click here for episode transcript Toggle answer visibility

Dawn Winkelmann (0s):

When baby is starting to show that they're hungry, we want to be proactive and get a meal ready. If we can do that rather quickly then babies tend to not overstock, because they're not so hungry. They can still have that great sensory and learning experience.

Katie Ferraro (15s):

Hey, there I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mama of seven specializing in baby-led weaning. Here on the baby-led weaning made easy podcast I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, leaving you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the baby-led weaning made easy podcast. I'm your host, Katie Ferraro. And today I have a very special guest with me. Dawn Winkelmann is joining us to talk about overstuffing.

Katie Ferraro (59s):

What do you do if your baby takes too big of bites? Well, Dawn is the perfect person to answer this very pressing question that a lot of you guys ask me about. Dawn specializes in pediatric swallowing and baby-led weaning. She's a speech language pathologist. She's also the feeding expert for ezpz. The company that makes the silicone suction mats and bowls, which many of you use. She also designed their open cup and their baby utensils. So, she's got a lot of expertise about what's going on inside of your baby's mouth. If you guys are interested in learning more about Dawn's work, she's on Instagram @msdawnslp.

Katie Ferraro (1m 39s):

Her website is also msdawnslp.com. And with no further ado, I want to bring Dawn on to talk to you guys about overstuffing. And what do you do if your baby takes a big bite? Well, Dawn, thank you so much for being here today to talk about overstuffing and what do we do if our baby takes a big bite?

Dawn Winkelmann (1m 58s):

Thank you so much, Katie. It's one of my favorite topics

Katie Ferraro (2m 1s):

And I have to be honest, I literally thought you made the term overstuffing up. Like when we started working together, I was like, oh, that's like a cute thing. And you're like, no, it's actually a thing. So could you tell us what does the term over stuffing mean?

Dawn Winkelmann (2m 15s):

Yes. So overstuffing is when a baby places too much food in their mouth and it fills up their oral cavity. And why that can be dangerous is of course we, as the feeders are panicked that baby's going to gag or choke on this food that is filling a baby's mouth and they're not aware or of, of how to deal with it.

Katie Ferraro (2m 37s):

Okay. And you mentioned choking and fears because that's definitely one of the biggest barriers to doing baby-led weaning is parents are scared of choking. And so they worry that when their baby bites off a piece of like a soft strip of food that they're going to choke because they don't know how to chew. So could you tell us how do babies learn how to chew at first, especially when they don't have teeth?

Dawn Winkelmann (2m 56s):

Yeah, so babies don't need teeth in order to learn how to eat and they certainly don't need them to learn how to eat safely. So what we need to do to be able to help babies learn how to choose is that we need a model safe eating. And what modeling is, is when we actually demonstrate what we want baby to do with a particular food. So my three strip food approach decreases overstuffing and actually encourages in chewing. So what that is is I basically give three strips of food into the bowl or a plate. The first strip is for the adult to model. So in my case, I'm having a strip of food from that bowl.

Dawn Winkelmann (3m 37s):

And I'm going to model chewing that food. The second strip is for baby to chew on while they're watching me as me modeling that. And then the third strip is for a baby to chew without a model. And so what we're trying to do here is we're implementing this chewing approach. That baby is learning how to be able to do this action because we're there in front of baby, actually demonstrating safe eating and doing this chew. The first ways that babies are learning how to chew is what's called a munch chew. And so it's just their mouth and jaw going up and down to be able to match the foods. So we want to over-exaggerate this munch chew. We want to go in and teach baby how to safely eat these foods.

Dawn Winkelmann (4m 21s):

And if you are not eating the same food, then you're not actually modeling how to do that. So sometimes parents will show me, look, I'm I'm, I'm actually, you know, showing baby how to chew. And I'm like, yes, you are, but you're actually chewing on air. You actually have the eat that food a little bit to be able to give babies the extra information that they need from a visual standpoint to actually know how to demonstrate that and watch you do it. So make your chewing animated, make it fun. And then there's that third piece that's still in the bowl, right? So you're, you're using that first strip to, you know, model. Baby's got the second one and then you're just going to kind of wait and see if baby will actually grab that third piece and then do this munch chew without a model.

Katie Ferraro (5m 3s):

And if they don't do it right at the beginning, guys, it's totally okay, right? Your baby is learning how to eat. They have been watching you for a while, but they do need a little bit of practice. So Dawn, you mentioned the munch chew and I heard you doing your cookie monster noise. It's a totally different experience for me to do a podcast interview with you because we normally would dotted. I worked together, we're doing video trainings and she gets really dramatic on what a munch chew looks like. Could you move us into then after the munch chew. Explain, I guess, for the audio listeners, what's the next phase of learning, how to chew after the munch chew.

Dawn Winkelmann (5m 32s):

Right. The next phase is what's called a rotary chew. And so that's the way that you and I actually chew. So it's more of a think of like a cow kind of chewing it's going in this like rotary motion. And we don't really think about it because we are such expert eaters that we don't really recognize what's going on with our jaw and our tongue, in our cheeks and our lips and our palate and what our mouth is doing during time. But we're really going through a rotary pattern where our jaws kind of moving in this direction. And if you're right-handed your jaw might go more to the right, if you're left-handed it might go more to the left and it's actually making this rotation that is helping to use the teeth.

Dawn Winkelmann (6m 17s):

But at first babies are using a munch chew, because they don't have any teeth. They're using their gum line to be able to force the foods that are already soft, that we're offering that are nice and safe and to be able to mash those foods. And when they start to get teeth, then they start to move into that rotary chew pattern .

Katie Ferraro (6m 34s):

All right. So you guys, I mentioned that Dawn and I do do a lot of video trainings together. And I know when we do our workshops together, we teach baby-led weaning where Dawn's a speech language pathologist. She's focusing on how babies learn how to eat. I'm the dietitian. I focus on what they need to eat for growth and development. So when we teach together, we do big Q&A sessions after, and someone will always ask, I get so freaked out when my baby stuffs a huge piece of food in my mouth. So Dawn, I was hoping next, you could maybe talk a little bit about the answer that you always give, which is about what size and shape to cut the foods. But for those of you who may not have ever taken one of my trainings with Dawn, if you guys want to get signed up for the next time we do, we teach them just a few times a year.

Katie Ferraro (7m 15s):

And when the next one comes up, we can email you and let you know, but we teach a whole hundred first foods approach to starting solid foods. And if you want to get on the email list in order to be notified the next time we are co-teaching go to 100firstfoods.com. You can sign up and leave your email address there. We have so much fun doing all of these live workshops and answering all of your questions. So Dawn, can you answer that question? We always get like, if my baby's overstuffing, you always tell them, all right, well here's the shape and size of the food you should be offering for baby-led weaning. What does that look like?

Dawn Winkelmann (7m 47s):

Yes. I like to offer strips of foods and as compared to cutting food up into very small bites and the rationale behind that is if your baby overstuffs and baby is feeling that in their mouth, that there's too much food. If they're tiny pieces of food, baby, can't get that out of their mouth. They don't have the oral motor skills to spit out really forcefully or find that tiny piece of food that's been cut up with their tongue. They don't have those oral motor skills yet, but if you have them cut up in either a spear or a strip form, then they can pull out that strip that they have held into their little chunky little fist and pull that out.

Dawn Winkelmann (8m 30s):

And so it decreases that risk of choking because they can actually save themselves if you will, and be able to pull that out. Also, if we do have to go in which of course we shouldn't go into a baby's mouth, but if we do, it's really hard to find a tiny little piece of food as compared to a bigger strip that we can just grab out with our fingers without really destroying the feeding relationship with us, trying to go in and because we're panicked and try to save baby. It's really important to offer those strips spears that are a great size for babies to be able to learn how to do this themselves.

Katie Ferraro (9m 3s):

And when you mentioned the strips, I know people are going to ask. So I generally say a good rule of thumb you guys for the size of the strips and analogy. If you think about just like the size of your adult pinky finger, or if you think about the size of a French fry, that's generally about the right amount, but you want it to be long enough, a few inches so that the baby can scoop it up even before they have their pincer grasp. So at six and seven months of age, we want them to be able to pick it up by themselves from the mat or the bowl, and have a little bit sticking out of their fat little baby fist so that they can then control the intake because that's one of the overarching tenants of baby-led weaning, right? That the baby is in control of feeding themselves. And this strip shape allows the baby to do that.

Katie Ferraro (9m 43s):

So Dawn, you mentioned sometimes parents do freak out and I think many of us have been guilty of that. What should we do if our baby bites off a big piece of food and I start to freak out?

Dawn Winkelmann (9m 54s):

So the first thing that I tell families is don't lunge a baby. And I see this often because you know, I do in-home feeding therapy and I'm constantly seeing parents want to jump across the table and save and rescue baby, but we don't want to lunge a baby or take a deep breath like, because what happens is that baby is watching us. We are giving babies such great eye contact when we're feeding them. And there's this wonderful relationship of this attention. It's called joint attention. And we are both focused on one thing and that's the food and how baby's eating. And if we look nervous or scared or we take that inhalation or we lunge forward, we can actually frighten baby.

Dawn Winkelmann (10m 37s):

And even if it's just a moment where maybe it's just a little alerted or startled, what happens is that baby will actually take a breath in. And if they have food in their mouth and they open up their airway to take that deep breath into like, oh no, what is mommy doing? Then that food will actually go down into their airway. So what we were actually afraid of, we can actually cause happening.

Katie Ferraro (10m 60s):

And I always tell parents, just sit on your hands. I do a lot of work on Instagram. And they'll say, I sat on my hands during this gag, you would have been so proud of me. And the point is to sit on your hands. So you don't lunge at the baby or touch your baby, which could startle the baby. And cause what's essentially a harmless gag to turn into a harmful choke. So that's a very good reminder, Dawn, we need to stay calm. Now, what could we do to prevent overstuffing? Or is that something we shouldn't even really worry about?

Dawn Winkelmann (11m 26s):

No, we, we should. There's so many things that we can do to be able to decrease the risk of overstuffing. The first thing that I tell families to do is be proactive. Get some meals ready before your baby really start showing those extreme signs of hunger. So if your baby starts showing you a few cues that they're hungry, let's start the ball rolling because basically overstuffing can start to occur and it can be habitual for babies who have been waiting to eat and are really tuned into their hunger cues. And so they'll grab all that food and just stuff it into their mouth. And so the first thing is we can be proactive and start

Katie Ferraro (12m 3s):

Don't wait until the baby gets really, really hungry.

Dawn Winkelmann (12m 5s):

Right. Were they're screaming or crying or just, you know, you can tell that baby's getting fussier, so we want to be proactive. And then the second thing is that we want to offer a high chair with a foot rest. Clinically. I find that babies have decreased overstuffing episodes when they're seated comfortably and safely in a high chair with a stable and adjustable footrest, if they feel comfortable and they feel stable and they feel safe, they don't rush. So a lot of babies who have their feet that are dingling will try to rush through the meal because they're uncomfortable. And so it can lead to over stuffing babies are trying to shove food into their mouth to be able to fulfill that hunger desire and do it rather quickly because they're, you know, uncomfortable in the high chair.

Dawn Winkelmann (12m 49s):

So we want to offer a high chair that is easy for baby to have their feet and have that stability. And some parents will say to me like, well, I have a high chair with a foot rest, but you know, my baby's feet don't meet that foot rest yet. And I always say that, you know, you can either get a different high chair that has an adjustable foot rest, or you can kind of add some boxes or use some duct tape or manipulate the high chair that you have now to be able to give baby that really great foot support that they're needing in order to feel a little bit more comfortable and calm in the high chair and help with decreasing over stuffing.

Katie Ferraro (13m 26s):

And one thing I like to mention when we're talking about overstuffing is, because this topic makes some other parents sad, cause they're like, oh, my baby is not even interested in food. We just started. I wish my baby was so excited and anxious. Or not anxious, that has a negative connotation, but we're so eager about eating it that they would overstuff. So I do want to just point out that overstuffing is not something that affects all babies. Some babies at the very beginning they're not going to be interested in putting very much if any food in their mouth for the first few days or even weeks of baby-led weaning. And you guys, if that's you, that's very typical as well, but there are some babies who take to it pretty quickly and get really excited about eating and then experience this overstuffing.

Katie Ferraro (14m 6s):

So that's who Dawn is speaking to, and it doesn't apply to everyone, but I think there's a lot of helpful tips in all of the things that you said today, Dawn, that can help us to make sure that we're offering foods in a safe environment and prepared safely to help prevent choking and to help our babies learn to be independent eaters. So where can the listeners go to learn more about your work and some of the other topics that you were mentioning today?

Dawn Winkelmann (14m 33s):

You can go to my website at msdawnslp.com. That's M S D A W N S L P.com.

Katie Ferraro (14m 41s):

And Dawn's also on Instagram @msdawnslp with tons of great feeding tips. We do teach live workshops together a few times a year. Again, if you want to get signed up to learn more about our hundred first foods approach to starting solid safely with baby-led weaning go to 100firstfoods.com. You can leave your email address and then we'll notify you the next time that we're teaching a series of live workshops. Dawn, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate it.

Dawn Winkelmann (15m 5s):

Thank you so much for having me.

Katie Ferraro (15m 8s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that episode on overstuffing. I know it's a very specific kind of random podcast episode topic, but I seriously get so many questions about overstuffing and I love having Dawn on as an expert to explain exactly what we do to prevent overstuffing, and then what we can do if the baby is overstuffing. And then I think most importantly, she gave us a good reminder on the number of different things that you don't want to do. So don't forget if you want to learn more about Dawn's work she's on Instagram @msdawnslp. Her website is msdawnslp.com. And as I mentioned in the episode, Dawn and I co-teach a series of live workshops a few times a year.

Katie Ferraro (15m 49s):

We actually, co-teach a program called the hundred first foods field guide. And if you want to get signed up to get alerts for the next time that program is open and we're teaching live webinars, we would love to have you join that email interest list to get informed and get your name on that list. Go to 100firstfoods.com and you can sign up and then you'll know the next time Dawn and I are working together. If you have more questions about baby-led weaning and giving your baby a safe start to solid foods, again, that URL is 100firstfoods.com. Thanks for listening to this episode about overstuffing.

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