Unpacking the Invisible Load of Feeding the Household with Erica Djossa, founder & CEO of Momwell

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<v SPEAKER_1>Okay, I don't want to stress you out, but somehow it's already the 100th day of the year.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, I love a good milestone as much as anyone, and I do have a little bit of a thing for the number 100.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Back in 2016, I created the 100 First Foods Approach to Starting Solid Foods, which is an easy, fun way to help your baby learn to safely eat 100 foods before turning one.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Because we know that babies who are offered the greatest variety of foods and flavors and tastes and textures early and often, those are the babies who are more likely to become independent eaters and are less likely to be picky eaters.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So if you're looking for a done-for-you solution to help expose your baby to more foods safely, my online program called Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro has everything you need, including the original 100 First Foods Daily Meal Plan.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's 20 weeks of done-for-you meal plans with recipes and videos and instructions on how to make all of those foods safely so that in 100 days from now, you'll be confident knowing that you did everything you could during your baby's all-important flavor window to help them establish a healthy and foundational love of food.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You can get started today by going to babyledweening.co.

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<v SPEAKER_1>program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I would love to see your baby celebrating their 100th first food very soon, too.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Come join me in the Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Again, that's at babyledweening.co.

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<v SPEAKER_1>slash program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Checking in about food allergies and introducing allergenic foods, and have you done peanut with your baby yet?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Well, intact nuts and thick globs of nut butter like peanut butter are choking hazards for babies.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But we want to get that peanut protein into your baby early and often in order to help lower the risk of peanut allergy down the road.

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<v SPEAKER_1>My absolute favorite way to introduce peanuts for babies is using the PuffWorks Baby Peanut Puffs.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So when you hear puffs, you're probably like, oh, those starchy little puff things.

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<v SPEAKER_1>No, no, no.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Not the little ones that earlier eaters can't pick up.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Those kind of crappy puffs from the store that have added sugar and refined grains and lots of salt.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The PuffWorks Baby Peanut Puffs have no added sugar.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They have just a smidge of sodium for preservatives, and they are the perfect size for baby-led weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They're about the size of your adult pinky finger.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Baby can pick them up, self-feed them, but they're so soft that they dissolve in your baby's mouth.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So you can introduce these peanut puffs even before your baby has teeth.

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<v SPEAKER_1>PuffWorks also makes a baby almond puff for the safe introduction of a separate allergenic food category.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's tree nuts.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And now, finally, PuffWorks put out a combo case.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So it's half baby peanut and half baby almond.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So if you want to grab one case, then you can knock out two new allergenic foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We do these on different days, though.

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<v SPEAKER_1>These are just the no stress, low mess way to get peanut and tree nut out of the way.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So you can get 15% off everything at puffworks.com when you use the affiliate discount code BLWPOD.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's a new code.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's BLWPOD.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Use that sucker at checkout at puffworks.com and get peanut and tree nut safely out of the way.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I'm literally drowning in trying to be the perfect mom, trying to be a good mom, trying to prove that I can handle and carry all of these things.

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<v SPEAKER_2>What I didn't realize was that I actually didn't have to.

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<v SPEAKER_2>A healthy dose of anger and rage at how completely ridiculous this setup of motherhood is for us as women is helpful in being able to like challenge the norms.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It's not an us problem.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Wait a minute, we were set up for failure.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Why do I have to do all this unpaid labor and work by myself?

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<v SPEAKER_2>This isn't expected of my partner.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I also need to run my business or work full time.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We're a two income household.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Like when we can shift and see that actually all of society is built on the back of women and mothers unpaid labor and caregiving, we can see like this is ridiculous actually.

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<v SPEAKER_1>mom of seven, specializing in baby lead weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Here on the Baby Lead Weaning with Katie Ferraro podcast, I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby lead weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>What if you don't love cooking new foods?

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<v SPEAKER_1>What if you don't love prepping food for your baby or your other kids?

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<v SPEAKER_1>What if you don't just even really like having to be in charge of all the food stuff in your house in general?

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<v SPEAKER_1>So much of what moms are tasked with falls under this banner of the invisible load, which is a phrase that if you're on social media, you've probably been hearing more about from mental health people in the parenting space.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And one of my favorite mental health experts in the world is Erica Djossa.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She's the CEO and founder of Momwell.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Erica is a registered psychotherapist.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She specializes in maternal mental health.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She's got over a decade of experience.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She's like my go-to gal when it comes to like the mental stuff about being a mom.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She was on our podcast back in episode 372.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We're talking about therapy.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That episode was mom's mental health strengthening parenthood through therapy.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But I wanted to have Erica back on the podcast because recently she's been itemizing all of the different tasks that we as moms have to do.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And I've like been seeing her doing this.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And I was like, oh my gosh, she has this whole list of things that, for example, are involved in feeding your family, like every little individual task that really adds up.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Like if you look at each of these individual tasks, oh my gosh, it's so much work on top of all of your other work.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So if you're feeling overwhelmed about having to do all the food stuff in your house, Erica is going to make you feel better about that.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But she also shares some really practical coping tips and exercises for us in this interview, because I know speaking personally for myself, even as a dietician, like this is an area, like getting food on the table for all of my children and family and having to be remotely healthy is something that like I struggle with because our household is super busy.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Erica is here and I love this conversation because she's talking about why we put unreasonable expectations on ourselves and then how we can stop doing that.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She introduced me to this idea of weaponized incompetence.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I'd never heard that phrase before, but like how do you know if your partner is deploying weaponized incompetence when it comes to some of the food stuff and how do you handle that?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And then she talks a lot about this exercise about value sorting.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So how do you sort the most important values, the things that are important to you right now that you're actually going to be able to act on?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And then how do we effectively ignore the rest so that we can like move forward in our lives?

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<v SPEAKER_1>So one thing I love about doing this podcast is getting to interview other experts like Erica.

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<v SPEAKER_1>If you're not already following the show, please hit subscribe so that both of the episodes that I release each week will show up in your feed.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I always do a mini solo training on Monday and then a longer feeding expert interview like today's on Thursdays.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Please subscribe if you aren't already.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And if any of the things you learn about on this show resonate with you and you could share them with another mom who might be struggling with some of the same stuff, I really appreciate your word of mouth recommendations.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So with no further ado, I want to bring on Erica Djossa.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She is the founder and CEO of Momwell, and she's talking all about unpacking the invisible load of feeding the household.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Here's Erica.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I had my aha moment a few months into my third postpartum, where I had walked by this pile of laundry in my primary room that was becoming a mountain.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And every day I walked by it, I would criticize myself.

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<v SPEAKER_2>How come you can't just fold this laundry and put it away?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Why is it so difficult for you?

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<v SPEAKER_2>What capable adult can't fold and stay on top of laundry and keep things organized?

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<v SPEAKER_2>And this went on for days, weeks, and I just felt more and more shame and defeated by this mountain that was growing.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We were a family of five, there was blowouts and spit up and blankets, and the volume of laundry had just totally expanded as we added a new little to the family.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But one day passing by it, I became curious about why I was struggling so much.

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<v SPEAKER_2>What was the resistance?

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<v SPEAKER_2>What was the hesitation?

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<v SPEAKER_2>And instead of becoming so critical, I just became curious.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And what I realized when I stepped back and asked myself what the deal with the laundry was, was that it was actually a change in season.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And all of the clothes in the dressers actually had to be taken out and rotated.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I had to then create a list to make sure that I had all the sizes for the clothes in the next seasons.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I had to rotate each of the boys' dressers, store the clothes, find a place to like, you know, a bin to put it in, to store it away.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And when I wrote down and actually calculated up all of the invisible pieces that were really underneath that pile of laundry, I had another four to six hours of labor.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And this is like my aha moment and epiphany of the invisible load coming from this pile of laundry.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But I think this aha moment is so necessary.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I don't know if you can remember when you had yours or what opened your eyes to the invisible pieces that are behind the physical tasks, because folding the laundry and putting it away in itself was not the big, wasn't the big heavy task.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It was all the other pieces that went with it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Do you feel like you've had a moment like that?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Just yesterday, it's like, I know I should cook dinner, but there's so many baseball games after school today.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And cooking dinner would mean that I would need to go get more groceries because they're eating so much more.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And then if I even did that, when it got here, I would have to clean the dishes that are already in the sink, but I would probably have to empty, we have two dishwashers, we have seven kids, all the dishwashers.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And I was like, I'm just taking us out for dinner because, again, what kind of mom can't feed her kid, what kind of dietitian mom at that?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Also, my kids are finally at an age where we can go to a restaurant without me wanting to murder everybody.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I pretended that this will be a family bonding experience, but it's just like, I freaking teach nutrition for a living, Erica, and making dinner is just the impossible task sometimes.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Oh my gosh.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, I just have to tell you.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So we have a whole chapter in my book, Releasing the Mother Load, on feeding.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I open every chapter with an invisible load mapped out of some of the tasks.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So this book came out of our Viral Popular Invisible Load series on Instagram, and I got to take it, put it in long form, and take people on a journey on how to actually unpack this invisible labor.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Rather than just make it visible, which is what we do on Instagram, I get to teach people how to actually let some of it go and to release it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But here are just some of the few things, invisible things, involved in feeding the household.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We've got knowing everyone's food preferences, considering nutrition, diet, and allergy needs, which I know you talk a lot about, managing food inventory, researching new meals that everyone will eat, creating a positive food environment.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I know our relationship with food is a big piece for many of us.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Planning meals, shopping for groceries, coping with the pressure to get kids to eat and to eat nutritious food, juggling schedules for meal times, like you're saying, we've got activities to go to, when are we actually going to have time to do all of this?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Making in the moment decisions about snacks and food requests, feeling pressure to set a healthy food example, and managing meal prep and cooking.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Is that all?

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<v SPEAKER_2>That's it?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Is that it?

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<v SPEAKER_2>So when you're thinking about making dinner, or you're feeling a strong aversion or resistance or avoidance to a task, it's like a little Spidey Sense moment for me where I'm like, what is under your iceberg?

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<v SPEAKER_2>What are all the invisible tasks underneath that physical task that are causing you to want to just like actually crawl in the fetal position and just like crawl under the table?

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<v SPEAKER_2>And it's significant.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Invisible work is work.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It is necessary work to make the household function.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I'm increasingly hearing this term invisible load.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Can you just define what that means?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Is it a clinical term?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Is it something you guys made up?

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<v SPEAKER_1>I love your series on Instagram, by the way, about the invisible load.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It falls in a couple of different buckets.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I like the invisible load because it encompasses a few things.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We've got the mental load or cognitive load.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We also have emotional labor and the emotional load.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So to me, the invisible load is all encompassing of those mental and emotional pieces that we have ownership over as the default or primary parent and feel that we have to manage.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So it looks like practically all the things that we have to notice and anticipate, then we have to research and plan the ongoing management.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So if I have a combo fed formula and breastfeeding baby, and I'm anticipating already when they're going to start solids, and then I'm thinking about and planning what that rollout is going to look like and how I'm going to monitor for allergens and like all these things, this research and prep and invisible work starts months out potentially even before I go to boil a vegetable and puree it.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We get pregnant moms on my Baby-Led Weaning For Beginners workshop.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I was like, first of all, you're amazing, but there's a lot of other stuff you have to do before you start solid foods.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, and you think about all of the research and prep.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So really, like the physical tasks in the division of labor in the home is still not equal.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Well, we can touch on that.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But we're talking about the physical tasks.

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<v SPEAKER_2>When we incorporate the invisible, the mental, cognitive, emotional components, the disproportionate amount of work that moms carry that is invisible, not recognized, not seen, and undervalued is so vast and significant.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So one of the things that I say is essential and even just like wetting your appetite with this work is taking that invisible load and making it visible.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Taking those cognitive pieces and putting them on paper so that you can see how much it is, like I did just now with that with that invisible load, or that your partner can see and you can share it together.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I provide a tool for this in the book called a load map, where we make that visible for you as like a starting point for conversations.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Mother's Day is coming up quick, and I know since I became a mom, my own mother and my mother-in-law have been instrumental, I mean total lifesavers in helping me and my husband keep our heads above water with all the new things that accompany parenthood.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But I always struggle, like what do you get them to adequately thank the grandmothers for all their help and support with the kids?

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<v SPEAKER_1>So one thing that I'm decent at that they're not so hot at is taking pictures, like my phone photo roll is literally bursting at the seams with pictures of all of our kids.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And an easy way to share these memories with your loved one is by giving them a skylight frame.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So the skylight frame is a touch screen photo frame that your whole family can upload photos to, and they appear in seconds so you can share your favorite moments with the people that matter the most to you like the grandmas.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The skylight frame is so simple to use.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The setup really took me like just a couple of minutes.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And what I love is that even the least tech savvy people can benefit from the skylight frame.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It looks like a real photo frame, adds a beautiful touch to your home, and the skylight frame comes in two sizes.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So they have an original 10 inch one or the newer 15 inch gallery frame.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's the one that I just got from my mother-in-law.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's beautiful.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's so easy to use.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You can send photos to the frame in just seconds via email, or I actually set up both of our phones and my mom's too, like all of them together with the skylight frame app.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And you can just send pictures that then magically appear on their frames every time you add them to the app.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So as a special limited time offer for our listeners, you can get 15% off your purchase of a skylight frame when you go to skylightframe.com/baby.

00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:10.440

<v SPEAKER_1>That's skylightframe.com/baby.

00:16:10.780 --> 00:16:17.420

<v SPEAKER_1>Mother's Day is coming right up, so order today to get 15% off your purchase at skylightframe.com/baby.

00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:21.220

<v SPEAKER_1>It's so easy, and you'll be so glad you set them up with the skylight frame.

00:16:25.660 --> 00:16:32.600

<v SPEAKER_1>Do you remember that TV show Out of This World where the girl Evie would put her fingers together and then she could stop time and do other stuff?

00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:43.480

<v SPEAKER_1>Sometimes I think about that, even if I had that power, there wouldn't even be enough time for me to do all the laundry and the dishes and the things that I feel terrible about every day because they're all always half done.

00:16:44.180 --> 00:16:46.540

<v SPEAKER_1>In business, if it's not on your calendar, it's not going to get done.

00:16:46.560 --> 00:16:47.400

<v SPEAKER_1>My team knows that.

00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:50.760

<v SPEAKER_1>You're lying when you say you're going to do this because I don't see it on your calendar.

00:16:51.260 --> 00:16:57.260

<v SPEAKER_1>Even if I calendered all of the housework, if I never even slept, there still wouldn't be enough time.

00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:03.240

<v SPEAKER_1>And the thought of writing it all out actually gives me anxiety because I would just be proving to myself that it's impossible.

00:17:03.260 --> 00:17:06.780

<v SPEAKER_1>Because every day there's that glimmer of hope, maybe I'll get it all done today.

00:17:07.280 --> 00:17:09.580

<v SPEAKER_1>No, you're never ever going to get it all done.

00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:11.180

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like everything will always be half done.

00:17:11.540 --> 00:17:18.060

<v SPEAKER_2>Well, and this is such an important point because we often feel that we have to have ownership over these things.

00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:24.580

<v SPEAKER_2>In society, being a good mom still equals care tasks and domestic labor.

00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:28.160

<v SPEAKER_2>Those are the images that we receive for being a good mom.

00:17:28.560 --> 00:17:48.020

<v SPEAKER_2>So when we're talking about trying to create a equal partnership in our home, where we are trying to release and let go of some of this load, if I feel that in order to be a good mom, I have to be the one doing this because this is how I'm measuring my worth and my role, I'm not going to readily share this with my partner or my support system.

00:17:48.040 --> 00:17:50.200

<v SPEAKER_2>It's going to be very, very difficult for me.

00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:57.300

<v SPEAKER_2>So there is a piece here where I question ownership and why we are the ones trying to fit in all of these invisible pieces.

00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:00.620

<v SPEAKER_1>Because we're better at it, honestly, is the other thing.

00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.900

<v SPEAKER_2>We're better at it because we've been expected to do it and we've had practice at it.

00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:15.540

<v SPEAKER_2>So now we've become better at it, and it's going to feel probably clunky and messy to include our partners when we've been in our sort of well-oiled machine for a while.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.840

<v SPEAKER_2>But there is a piece here where we've been socially expected to do it.

00:18:20.860 --> 00:18:24.220

<v SPEAKER_2>So we haven't had an option of being bad at it.

00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.260

<v SPEAKER_2>We've had to learn and we've had to incorporate it.

00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:34.640

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like when you get a new team member and you're like, I know I could do this faster and better than you, but I also know if I spend the time teaching you how to do it, that you will do it better and faster than me.

00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:35.720

<v SPEAKER_1>But there's that.

00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:36.540

<v SPEAKER_2>It will take time.

00:18:36.780 --> 00:18:37.680

<v SPEAKER_2>It will take time.

00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.900

<v SPEAKER_1>Says the lady who does her own CapCut memes.

00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.300

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm like, you know someone on your team should be doing that.

00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:43.380

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, is that really the best?

00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:44.580

<v SPEAKER_2>We're just experimenting.

00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:46.340

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm not calling you.

00:18:46.360 --> 00:18:48.160

<v SPEAKER_1>I just want to show like, it happens to all of us.

00:18:48.180 --> 00:18:50.480

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, everything in your business is so systemized.

00:18:50.500 --> 00:18:57.300

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I so admire the way you run your business, but I like to know that you like also have real world struggles and maybe hate having to make content too.

00:18:57.320 --> 00:18:58.220

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, that makes me feel better.

00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:58.700

<v SPEAKER_2>Of course.

00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:03.020

<v SPEAKER_2>And I started off as the one doing all the things in the house.

00:19:03.040 --> 00:19:10.100

<v SPEAKER_2>That's what led to my, I talk about my breakdown, current breakthrough where I realized I had postpartum depression and I was like, totally struggling.

00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:18.200

<v SPEAKER_2>I had like this fit of rage, I was pulled over by the police, I got home, it was this whole, I tell the story in the book, I was throwing up in my driveway, hyperventilating.

00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:22.000

<v SPEAKER_2>It was a whole ordeal and I was like, I am drowning.

00:19:22.020 --> 00:19:32.120

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm literally drowning in trying to be the perfect mom, trying to be a good mom, trying to prove that I can handle and carry all of these things.

00:19:32.360 --> 00:19:34.780

<v SPEAKER_2>What I didn't realize was that I actually didn't have to.

00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:37.320

<v SPEAKER_2>I actually didn't have to carry all of the things.

00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:45.960

<v SPEAKER_2>A lot of the things that I felt that I had to carry were actually things that were put in, like I talk about this drawer of motherhood.

00:19:45.980 --> 00:20:01.420

<v SPEAKER_2>Like if you imagine this filing cabinet drawer labeled motherhood and every image or expectation or ideal or societal norm that you've ever seen throughout your life has been put into this motherhood drawer, what you think it means to be a good mom.

00:20:01.800 --> 00:20:04.880

<v SPEAKER_2>And we pull on that drawer when we step into our role.

00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:16.080

<v SPEAKER_2>But when I get into that drawer, I'm like, wait a minute, there's so much junk and crap in here that I didn't subscribe to, that I don't hold true to my values now.

00:20:16.580 --> 00:20:24.840

<v SPEAKER_2>And what I realized was happening was that I was going in a million directions, trying to please everyone and do all of the things when so much of it was contradictory.

00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:31.980

<v SPEAKER_2>It didn't align with my values and they were expectations placed on me, not things I had chosen consciously, intentionally chosen for myself.

00:20:32.580 --> 00:20:38.080

<v SPEAKER_1>I love that in your book, you start each chapter with a very, very descriptive situation.

00:20:38.100 --> 00:20:42.360

<v SPEAKER_1>Here's how the invisible load rears its ugly head in this part of your life.

00:20:42.460 --> 00:20:49.320

<v SPEAKER_1>And the feeding chapter, I wanted to ask you a little bit more about that, because I know I shared with you I don't always love cooking.

00:20:49.320 --> 00:20:51.440

<v SPEAKER_1>And it's from personal experience.

00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:57.600

<v SPEAKER_1>I used to enjoy cooking as a hobby, but now if it's something I have to do for 10 people three times a day, it's a real drag.

00:20:57.620 --> 00:21:01.240

<v SPEAKER_1>So do you have any tips for new moms who are feeling overwhelmed?

00:21:01.260 --> 00:21:06.080

<v SPEAKER_1>Because on top of everything else I already did now, God, I have to figure out how to start solid foods with my baby.

00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:17.860

<v SPEAKER_2>I think that it really comes down to understanding what value you're trying to express in your prep of food.

00:21:18.020 --> 00:21:27.060

<v SPEAKER_2>It's kind of abstract and unconventional, my approach to the chapter on food, because I talk about how food is actually so much more than food for a lot of us.

00:21:27.060 --> 00:21:35.060

<v SPEAKER_2>And if we think about and reflect on our experience with food growing up, what does it mean for somebody to make a homemade meal for us?

00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:38.060

<v SPEAKER_2>What does it mean for somebody to put in the thought and effort?

00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.480

<v SPEAKER_2>What does it mean when our kids don't eat or when we don't provide a balanced meal?

00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:57.680

<v SPEAKER_2>And what you soon begin to hear from people is that, well, I show love by doing this thing, or I show that I care, or there's usually a value or something.

00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:08.620

<v SPEAKER_2>I feel like we need to sit up to the table and have family dinners because we ate in front of the TV every night when I was growing up, and I want to parent differently than that.

00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.620

<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm like, okay, so the value there is actually presence and connection.

00:22:13.040 --> 00:22:18.320

<v SPEAKER_2>And we don't have to do that or live that out by being at the table.

00:22:18.560 --> 00:22:21.940

<v SPEAKER_2>We can prioritize that in a lot of different ways.

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:37.920

<v SPEAKER_2>So when it comes to food and thinking and feeling like there's a lot of pressure around it, I would get a spidey sense up that we have a lot of perfectionist ideals and expectations about what dinner should look like.

00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:40.240

<v SPEAKER_2>And it becomes so cumbersome.

00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:45.200

<v SPEAKER_2>It's not like triage, okay, let's throw this, this, and this in and keep it quick and keep it on the move.

00:22:45.220 --> 00:22:50.740

<v SPEAKER_2>There's probably a lot of expectations there around it being such a particular way.

00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:54.560

<v SPEAKER_1>That only you care about, like your kids literally don't care.

00:22:54.620 --> 00:22:57.000

<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, you can't have Flamin Hot Cheetos and regular Dr.

00:22:57.020 --> 00:23:06.500

<v SPEAKER_1>Pepper for dinner every night, but like they don't care if there's not like a whole grain starch and a vegetable and some protein with a cup of, they don't care.

00:23:06.520 --> 00:23:15.360

<v SPEAKER_2>And I really, and this is like probably going to be an occupational hazard for you because like I have a hard time handing over like the emotional regulating of tantrums in the home because I'm a therapist.

00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.020

<v SPEAKER_2>So you would probably have a hard time handing over like the food and nutritional components.

00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:23.760

<v SPEAKER_1>We have an au pair who lives with us and again, she has her hands full with child care, but like I'm like, don't worry about the food.

00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:25.520

<v SPEAKER_1>Like it actually matters to me.

00:23:25.540 --> 00:23:31.860

<v SPEAKER_1>And when she made them like this Brazilian dish the other night with like three types of carbohydrate in it, they freaking loved it.

00:23:31.860 --> 00:23:33.900

<v SPEAKER_1>And I was like, hey, Tali, do you want to cook more?

00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:34.780

<v SPEAKER_1>She's like, I'd love to.

00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:36.080

<v SPEAKER_1>Great.

00:23:36.100 --> 00:23:39.100

<v SPEAKER_1>So maybe I can stop taking them to pho every night and you could help.

00:23:39.260 --> 00:23:43.620

<v SPEAKER_1>But until it happened, I was like, oh, it's not the end of the world if someone else helps me.

00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.580

<v SPEAKER_1>And I feel very grateful and it's a privilege to have an au pair.

00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:48.100

<v SPEAKER_1>My husband travels 100% of the time.

00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:50.720

<v SPEAKER_1>Otherwise, it would be and they would literally starve to death.

00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:56.360

<v SPEAKER_1>So having another adult there to help, I recognize is not something that all the parents listening have.

00:23:57.760 --> 00:24:01.500

<v SPEAKER_2>But I had so I handed this load like the feeding load over to my husband.

00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.840

<v SPEAKER_2>And he went for function over perfectionism.

00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.040

<v SPEAKER_2>And my brain was like, what the F?

00:24:08.060 --> 00:24:10.260

<v SPEAKER_2>Like, how did he just like move into functions?

00:24:10.280 --> 00:24:10.880

<v SPEAKER_1>What does that mean?

00:24:10.900 --> 00:24:12.220

<v SPEAKER_1>What is function in food?

00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.040

<v SPEAKER_2>Like, they're hungry.

00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:15.000

<v SPEAKER_2>They need to eat.

00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:17.500

<v SPEAKER_2>This is what we can do in these 15 minutes.

00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:21.740

<v SPEAKER_2>And like just went into like very like logical, functional.

00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:30.620

<v SPEAKER_2>Like, let's solve this problem mode without the added level of like perfectionism and absolute like shit storm that breaks out in my head.

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.820

<v SPEAKER_2>When I think about having to meal plan, he didn't have any of that.

00:24:33.840 --> 00:24:35.120

<v SPEAKER_1>And they probably loved it.

00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:40.820

<v SPEAKER_1>And like 20 years from now, they'd be like, remember when dad would make his pancakes for dinner and they never remember all the amazing whole grains.

00:24:40.840 --> 00:24:41.400

<v SPEAKER_1>I made them.

00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:42.720

<v SPEAKER_1>What's going to happen?

00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:46.680

<v SPEAKER_2>Well, and the thing is, it's like sometimes people talk about weaponized and competence and we're okay.

00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:49.020

<v SPEAKER_2>Like if you just put pizza on the table every night, that's a problem.

00:24:49.420 --> 00:24:52.960

<v SPEAKER_2>But in my book, I talk about finding a common tolerable standard.

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:54.240

<v SPEAKER_2>And we had some conversations.

00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:57.200

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm like, okay, there needs to be at least like a veggie or something mixed in with everything.

00:24:57.220 --> 00:24:58.680

<v SPEAKER_2>The whole meal can't be like carbohydrates.

00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:14.580

<v SPEAKER_2>Like we need to like figure out some basic tolerable rules like or agreements that we can find together so that if I like to back off and take my hands off of this, I know that we've got like a tolerable standard that we're going to work towards that we're in agreement about.

00:25:14.600 --> 00:25:16.960

<v SPEAKER_2>It's not going to be perfectionist like my standards are.

00:25:17.060 --> 00:25:23.340

<v SPEAKER_2>It's not going to be like to the level that I would do it, but I can take my hands off of it and just like look the other way.

00:25:23.360 --> 00:25:24.060

<v SPEAKER_1>Look the other way.

00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:31.340

<v SPEAKER_1>Which frees up other space for you to, I know you told me you had gotten to a conference and I was like, can you please tell me about how you got to even like leave your house?

00:25:31.660 --> 00:25:32.920

<v SPEAKER_1>That's amazing.

00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:42.520

<v SPEAKER_2>You know, and if you didn't have the practice of doing the meal than the meal prep, it wouldn't have bought me the capacity to be able to leave for six days, which would have been unimaginable before.

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:47.140

<v SPEAKER_1>And that's where parents listening feel like, I know you and I both, my twins are five and your youngest is five.

00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.420

<v SPEAKER_1>Like our youngest kids are five.

00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:54.220

<v SPEAKER_1>That's very different than having an infant who's clinging to you 24 seven and physically needs you to be there.

00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:02.560

<v SPEAKER_1>But I do believe, especially my friends who had kids before me, they set their partners up for failure by insisting on doing everything.

00:26:02.840 --> 00:26:06.600

<v SPEAKER_1>We have a friend who told us one time that her husband had never changed a diaper.

00:26:06.620 --> 00:26:09.060

<v SPEAKER_1>And I like, I hate him like to my I love him actually.

00:26:09.080 --> 00:26:11.820

<v SPEAKER_1>But like, how did you make it so that he never changed a diaper?

00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:14.040

<v SPEAKER_1>And now you're pissed that he doesn't help you with anything?

00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:17.200

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I do think sometimes we make it worse.

00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.620

<v SPEAKER_1>And I would self identify as type A if you're still allowed to do that.

00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.300

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I'm like, I got this, I can do it better than you.

00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:24.900

<v SPEAKER_1>But you practice giving up control.

00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:25.820

<v SPEAKER_1>I like that idea.

00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.640

<v SPEAKER_2>Well, and it's so important because as you said, we start these patterns early on.

00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:38.200

<v SPEAKER_2>And then what happens is this maternal knowledge that we've acquired from being in proximity deepens over time.

00:26:38.320 --> 00:26:50.840

<v SPEAKER_2>So then it becomes so much harder to hand things over when we are like super expert level status and our partner is going to still come in at novice level and it's going to be clunky and messy and uncomfortable to navigate.

00:26:51.300 --> 00:26:56.120

<v SPEAKER_2>I also would say that I'm a type sort of perfectionist and that's okay.

00:26:56.320 --> 00:26:57.980

<v SPEAKER_2>We don't hear men being called perfectionists.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.920

<v SPEAKER_2>It's a conversation for another day, but it's okay to be perfectionist.

00:27:01.940 --> 00:27:09.400

<v SPEAKER_2>Like I know my occupational hazard and the thing that I'm going to really hold tightly to is the kid's emotional well-being because I'm a therapist and it's just like, I know too much.

00:27:09.820 --> 00:27:13.400

<v SPEAKER_2>I would rather be the one to tame the tantrums because like that's kind of my shtick.

00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:17.580

<v SPEAKER_2>I can hold on to that, but I'm not going to hold on to all the things.

00:27:17.600 --> 00:27:22.800

<v SPEAKER_2>So if I want to retain being sort of a type of perfectionist on an area, okay, that's okay.

00:27:22.900 --> 00:27:24.380

<v SPEAKER_2>Pick one, two, three areas.

00:27:24.380 --> 00:27:34.860

<v SPEAKER_2>Let the rest of them go or share them or transfer ownership so that you aren't trying to do everything all the time and like drowning in plain sight as a result.

00:27:35.340 --> 00:27:37.900

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:27:46.476 --> 00:27:56.996

<v SPEAKER_1>Erica, in your new book, Releasing the Mother Load, How to Carry Less and Enjoy Motherhood More, you talk about this idea of carrying less, and I feel like I'm hyper self-aware.

00:27:56.996 --> 00:27:58.536

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm constantly surveying my load.

00:27:58.856 --> 00:28:03.716

<v SPEAKER_1>I would love to have less on my plate, but I literally don't think there's anything less to cut.

00:28:03.736 --> 00:28:08.276

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, what tips do you have for this idea of carrying less?

00:28:08.796 --> 00:28:14.116

<v SPEAKER_2>I mean, on one hand, I just want to validate, like, holy frick, you have seven children.

00:28:14.136 --> 00:28:20.076

<v SPEAKER_2>Like, you think about the invisible load as a backpack, like a clear backpack, you know, that we carry, we feel the weight of.

00:28:20.376 --> 00:28:29.916

<v SPEAKER_2>With each additional child, we get another backpack of that invisible labor because they've got different preferences, they're in different age groups, they have different school, different friends, different whatever.

00:28:30.196 --> 00:28:32.316

<v SPEAKER_2>So that load exponentially grows.

00:28:32.336 --> 00:28:35.416

<v SPEAKER_2>The more children we add, it becomes bigger.

00:28:35.776 --> 00:28:41.516

<v SPEAKER_2>So that is valid that it feels like we are, you know, drowning in our role.

00:28:41.836 --> 00:28:43.836

<v SPEAKER_2>And that makes sense, there's a lot going on.

00:28:44.716 --> 00:28:52.756

<v SPEAKER_2>On the other hand, there is a lot of expectation that comes from scrolling social media, people in our life.

00:28:52.776 --> 00:29:03.116

<v SPEAKER_2>Again, those things that are external outside of us that I don't maybe align with in my value system, but I feel like I should and need to do to be a good mom.

00:29:03.476 --> 00:29:04.616

<v SPEAKER_2>And so I do them.

00:29:04.936 --> 00:29:17.816

<v SPEAKER_2>So for example, I might be scrolling and see that my friends have put their kids in like a timely time class and a infant massage class and all of these things that they've signed themselves up for.

00:29:17.836 --> 00:29:22.836

<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm feeling like, ooh, it really would be good for their development if I like put them in some things.

00:29:23.276 --> 00:29:35.816

<v SPEAKER_2>But at the same time, I know that my life is so chaotic at work and so busy and unpredictable that I actually really value any kind of like slowness or presence that I can try and curate for my family life.

00:29:36.416 --> 00:29:43.296

<v SPEAKER_2>So now I have this conflict where I want to sign us up and take more on the calendar, but my value is slowness.

00:29:43.676 --> 00:29:45.756

<v SPEAKER_2>So then I go to that and I say, you know what?

00:29:45.776 --> 00:29:56.236

<v SPEAKER_2>Like in order to preserve flexibility and slowness and presence and time with the family, I'm not going to sign us up for more activities, even though I feel the drive and the push that I should do that.

00:29:56.556 --> 00:30:05.156

<v SPEAKER_2>And I will just note those down to do them when this one activity that we've agreed to per season or whatever wraps, and then I will do that then.

00:30:05.616 --> 00:30:07.776

<v SPEAKER_1>How did you know that you valued slowness?

00:30:08.356 --> 00:30:22.656

<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, so I take you through this in the book and I actually have a free, a freebie I can provide to you in your community called a value sort exercise, where most of us, like our values aren't top of mind unless we take some time to intentionally uncover what they are.

00:30:23.216 --> 00:30:27.436

<v SPEAKER_2>And so this value sort is a free download, you print it off and you cut the cards out.

00:30:27.456 --> 00:30:34.836

<v SPEAKER_2>There's like 120 different values, words and little descriptors, and you narrow them down to your top 10 values.

00:30:35.496 --> 00:30:42.336

<v SPEAKER_2>They can be adventure, creativity, presence, thrift, nutrition, like they're all, they could be anything, right?

00:30:42.736 --> 00:30:52.916

<v SPEAKER_2>And when you get down to your top 10, you have a GPS and a roadmap for making decisions in alignment with what is important to you.

00:30:53.196 --> 00:31:04.876

<v SPEAKER_2>And you use those as a guidepost to weigh these external pressures against, to make really intentional decisions for your time, your calendar, your family life, and it takes practice, of course.

00:31:04.896 --> 00:31:19.936

<v SPEAKER_2>I mean, I've been doing this work now for three or four years, but it gives you something to anchor in so that if you're feeling pulled, like I have a, like I'm somehow ended up on like the sourdough side of TikTok where everyone's making homemade bread.

00:31:20.236 --> 00:31:26.596

<v SPEAKER_2>And I feel like, ooh, you know, that looks very motherly and like that looks like something that I should do and would want to do.

00:31:26.616 --> 00:31:31.376

<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm pulled towards and I look at my value system and I look at my expression of motherhood and what it means to me.

00:31:31.396 --> 00:31:38.056

<v SPEAKER_2>And I'm like, ugh, I could buy a sourdough and have the same experience and just like toast it, put some thing, warm it, put it in the oven, whatever.

00:31:38.076 --> 00:31:41.416

<v SPEAKER_2>And I don't need to take that pressure on.

00:31:41.516 --> 00:31:46.896

<v SPEAKER_2>It doesn't align with my values and it doesn't define my worth in my role as a mom.

00:31:47.316 --> 00:31:50.496

<v SPEAKER_1>I know we're in similar spaces in the parenting and baby space.

00:31:50.516 --> 00:31:56.836

<v SPEAKER_1>And I know we're aligned a lot on what we want for our families and our own time and knowing there's limited amount of time.

00:31:56.856 --> 00:32:03.736

<v SPEAKER_1>And you spend a lot of time with parents and I hear from parents who like, I don't like to use the word anxiety and anxious freely.

00:32:03.756 --> 00:32:09.496

<v SPEAKER_1>Like I know that's a very, very heavy word, but like moms aren't anxious about starting solid foods.

00:32:09.516 --> 00:32:10.656

<v SPEAKER_1>They're anxious their baby's going to choke.

00:32:10.676 --> 00:32:13.596

<v SPEAKER_1>They're anxious that they're going to have a food allergy.

00:32:13.736 --> 00:32:15.016

<v SPEAKER_1>And these are real life fears.

00:32:15.056 --> 00:32:17.116

<v SPEAKER_1>Like we say, they're rare, but it could happen.

00:32:17.836 --> 00:32:23.896

<v SPEAKER_1>And from the moms that you talk to, like just, you know, 10,000 foot meter view, whatever, if you're looking for my Canadian friends.

00:32:24.336 --> 00:32:25.356

<v SPEAKER_1>How are moms doing?

00:32:25.616 --> 00:32:26.596

<v SPEAKER_1>Is this getting worse?

00:32:26.616 --> 00:32:28.716

<v SPEAKER_1>Is talking about helping us get better?

00:32:29.036 --> 00:32:29.656

<v SPEAKER_1>What do you think?

00:32:29.676 --> 00:32:32.236

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, what's your pulse check, I guess, on motherhood right now?

00:32:32.656 --> 00:32:41.596

<v SPEAKER_2>I feel like the vast majority of moms are struggling to, like, quote unquote, carry it all or do it all.

00:32:41.936 --> 00:32:54.096

<v SPEAKER_2>But then what happens is because it looks like everybody else is doing it, and we look around and nobody else is saying out loud that this is an unreasonable expectation of women to carry.

00:32:54.556 --> 00:32:59.616

<v SPEAKER_2>We look to our right, look to our left, and are like, well, everyone's doing it, this must be a me problem.

00:33:00.056 --> 00:33:10.316

<v SPEAKER_2>And so what happens is what happened when I was going by that load of laundry, that pile that was growing that mountain where we say, I must not be good enough.

00:33:10.616 --> 00:33:11.796

<v SPEAKER_2>I must be flawed.

00:33:11.796 --> 00:33:14.176

<v SPEAKER_2>It must be me that can't keep up.

00:33:14.516 --> 00:33:16.116

<v SPEAKER_2>I must not be made for motherhood.

00:33:16.156 --> 00:33:21.556

<v SPEAKER_2>I must not be cut out for this because it looks like we're alone in our struggle.

00:33:22.136 --> 00:33:33.116

<v SPEAKER_2>But actually, everybody is drowning in plain sight and we can't really come together and see and understand that because we go inward to ourselves.

00:33:33.516 --> 00:33:44.956

<v SPEAKER_2>So recognizing this and shifting our perspective and focus to the unreasonable expectations that are on mothers, that are just wild.

00:33:44.956 --> 00:33:47.816

<v SPEAKER_2>And it's not that we're flawed or we're not good enough or we're failing.

00:33:48.136 --> 00:33:56.356

<v SPEAKER_2>It's that it is unreasonable of any human to do this amount of labor themselves is so important.

00:33:56.376 --> 00:33:59.056

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's what my book is really pushing to shift.

00:33:59.076 --> 00:34:00.296

<v SPEAKER_2>We are not flawed, we're not broken.

00:34:00.296 --> 00:34:02.056

<v SPEAKER_2>This is ridiculously.

00:34:02.476 --> 00:34:04.116

<v SPEAKER_1>And staying up all night is not the answer.

00:34:04.196 --> 00:34:17.056

<v SPEAKER_1>I always think if I could just do one all night or a week, if I could do it, I could get caught up on the school emails and the sports apps and all the life things that you don't do when you're running a business and raising your kids.

00:34:17.376 --> 00:34:23.996

<v SPEAKER_1>But I don't think having to stay up one night, all night, once a week, it probably wouldn't solve my problems even if I could do that.

00:34:24.096 --> 00:34:26.736

<v SPEAKER_1>I feel bad that I can't do one all night or a week.

00:34:26.756 --> 00:34:27.596

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm like, what's wrong with me?

00:34:27.596 --> 00:34:29.176

<v SPEAKER_1>Lots of people live on less weight than me.

00:34:29.196 --> 00:34:32.016

<v SPEAKER_2>Well, that's an unrealistic expectation of ourselves.

00:34:32.356 --> 00:34:40.076

<v SPEAKER_2>And then there's a healthy dose of, I talk about maternal rage, mom rage, anger, a lot on my platform.

00:34:40.496 --> 00:34:54.876

<v SPEAKER_2>I mean, a healthy dose of anger and rage at how completely ridiculous this setup of motherhood is for us as women is helpful in being able to challenge the norms.

00:34:54.996 --> 00:34:56.276

<v SPEAKER_2>It's not an us problem.

00:34:56.296 --> 00:34:58.456

<v SPEAKER_2>Wait a minute, we were set up for failure.

00:34:58.936 --> 00:35:01.996

<v SPEAKER_2>Why do I have to do all this unpaid labor and work by myself?

00:35:02.016 --> 00:35:03.576

<v SPEAKER_2>This isn't expected of my partner.

00:35:03.596 --> 00:35:05.876

<v SPEAKER_2>I also need to run my business or work full time.

00:35:05.896 --> 00:35:07.056

<v SPEAKER_2>We're a two income household.

00:35:08.056 --> 00:35:20.816

<v SPEAKER_2>When we can shift and see that actually all of society is built on the back of women and mothers unpaid labor and caregiving, we can see this is ridiculous actually and shouldn't be expected to do this.

00:35:21.276 --> 00:35:25.416

<v SPEAKER_1>So Erica, I love that you went through the litany of things involved just in feeding.

00:35:25.476 --> 00:35:26.456

<v SPEAKER_1>That makes me feel better.

00:35:26.476 --> 00:35:33.616

<v SPEAKER_1>I feel stressed by lots of areas in life and just think, gosh, all of those pieces that I didn't even realize were tasks I'm expected to do.

00:35:34.196 --> 00:35:39.756

<v SPEAKER_1>What other topics, besides feeding, do you cover in your new book, Releasing the Motherload?

00:35:40.196 --> 00:36:01.576

<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, so feeding, talk about sleep, talk about being the memory maker and the fun producer of the home, talk about being the scheduler, all of the things that we sort of get defaulted into as a primary caregiver or talk about being the keeper of the house and the one responsible for the domestic labor.

00:36:02.356 --> 00:36:11.396

<v SPEAKER_2>So, the first part of the book actually walks through what the invisible load is, understanding society's expectations of mothers and then tapping into your values.

00:36:11.416 --> 00:36:12.436

<v SPEAKER_2>That's the first section.

00:36:12.816 --> 00:36:23.796

<v SPEAKER_2>And then the second section actually carves out each of these loads in individual chapters and takes us through what are the assumptions and beliefs that cause us to continue to carry these loads.

00:36:24.236 --> 00:36:36.996

<v SPEAKER_2>And now here are some of the skills and ways that we can break out of these patterns and learn to either release some of it that just doesn't need to be carried at all or share some of it with our partner or support system.

00:36:37.396 --> 00:36:41.156

<v SPEAKER_2>So like I go through several of them in the second part of the book.

00:36:41.616 --> 00:36:44.236

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:36:49.216 --> 00:36:52.716

<v SPEAKER_1>My phone is bursting at the seams with photos of our kids.

00:36:52.876 --> 00:36:56.876

<v SPEAKER_1>And over the years, I've tried all sorts of different ways to store and share them with family members.

00:36:56.896 --> 00:37:01.516

<v SPEAKER_1>So for a while, I would just text out pictures to the grandparents and then we tried a shared photo album.

00:37:01.536 --> 00:37:05.256

<v SPEAKER_1>But some people were using Google Photos and others preferred Facebook Messenger for pictures.

00:37:05.276 --> 00:37:07.456

<v SPEAKER_1>And the more kids we had, the messier it got.

00:37:07.796 --> 00:37:10.676

<v SPEAKER_1>Then I stumbled across the Family Album App.

00:37:11.036 --> 00:37:17.356

<v SPEAKER_1>The Family Album App was created to give parents a secure and easy way to share photos and videos with loved ones.

00:37:17.436 --> 00:37:21.196

<v SPEAKER_1>It's a totally secure personal haven for your family's memories.

00:37:21.516 --> 00:37:25.796

<v SPEAKER_1>I love that there's no third party ads, no unwanted eyes, and it's totally free.

00:37:26.216 --> 00:37:31.216

<v SPEAKER_1>No more scrolling through endless feeds or searching folders to find the picture of the kid that you need right now.

00:37:31.616 --> 00:37:38.456

<v SPEAKER_1>Another cool feature about the Family Album App is you can order 8 free photo prints every month to be delivered to your home.

00:37:38.696 --> 00:37:46.336

<v SPEAKER_1>Which, if you think about how quickly your baby is changing, it's really nice to have some tangible pictures to hold onto or share to document the last month of your baby's life.

00:37:46.856 --> 00:38:02.336

<v SPEAKER_1>If you're looking to level up your photo sharing and organization game with a secure, one-stop, easy-to-use photo organization app, head over to the App Store, search Family Album, download the Family Album App, and start creating a legacy of love one photo at a time.

00:38:07.176 --> 00:38:10.196

<v SPEAKER_1>So Erica, I definitely want to do the value sort exercise.

00:38:10.456 --> 00:38:16.296

<v SPEAKER_1>My eyes were lighting up and you're like, there's 120 different values, because I can't name 120 values, but you did it for us.

00:38:16.316 --> 00:38:20.496

<v SPEAKER_1>So I will link to that freebie in the description as well as the show notes for this episode.

00:38:20.516 --> 00:38:22.276

<v SPEAKER_1>But tell us where we can find the book.

00:38:22.656 --> 00:38:26.256

<v SPEAKER_2>It's so exciting that it's available wherever books can be found.

00:38:26.276 --> 00:38:32.456

<v SPEAKER_2>If you're Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, Indigo in Canada, Chapters, all the places.

00:38:32.936 --> 00:38:39.336

<v SPEAKER_2>And to visit the book website, it's actually ericajossa.com.

00:38:39.336 --> 00:38:47.916

<v SPEAKER_2>And I have a companion guide that you can download to do worksheets alongside the book, the free value sort, lots of resources there to pair with it.

00:38:47.976 --> 00:38:55.856

<v SPEAKER_2>And if you're looking for more specialized maternal mental health support, I'm momwell, like momwell.com, momwell on Instagram.

00:38:55.876 --> 00:39:02.536

<v SPEAKER_2>We have a team of therapists across Canada and the US rolling out in California, New York, Texas, Pennsylvania, Illinois.

00:39:02.856 --> 00:39:07.396

<v SPEAKER_2>Lots of big things happening on the therapy, specialized therapy side of things as well.

00:39:07.716 --> 00:39:08.576

<v SPEAKER_1>And congratulations.

00:39:08.596 --> 00:39:10.056

<v SPEAKER_1>That is such an accomplishment.

00:39:10.076 --> 00:39:17.616

<v SPEAKER_1>I am, as you know, like completely in awe of you, both your professional accomplishments and, you know, we've talked offline about feeding kids and food allergies.

00:39:17.636 --> 00:39:19.596

<v SPEAKER_1>And I'm like, you were all juggling a lot.

00:39:19.616 --> 00:39:21.276

<v SPEAKER_1>But I think you're doing a fabulous job.

00:39:21.296 --> 00:39:23.596

<v SPEAKER_1>And thank you so much for bringing this book into the world.

00:39:23.616 --> 00:39:24.236

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm really excited.

00:39:24.296 --> 00:39:26.516

<v SPEAKER_1>I love a book with a companion worksheet.

00:39:26.536 --> 00:39:33.136

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm like, oh, my gosh, she made the outline for me because, again, a lot of this is it's working on and it's practicing things and practicing how you talk about it.

00:39:33.156 --> 00:39:34.556

<v SPEAKER_1>It doesn't come naturally.

00:39:34.576 --> 00:39:40.036

<v SPEAKER_1>But thank you for shedding on light, the light on the idea like we're all drowning in plain sight.

00:39:40.036 --> 00:39:42.596

<v SPEAKER_1>So I really encourage everyone to follow you at Momwell.

00:39:42.696 --> 00:39:47.176

<v SPEAKER_1>I think your content is fantastic and I'm excited to read your book as well.

00:39:47.536 --> 00:39:48.856

<v SPEAKER_2>Thank you so much.

00:39:48.876 --> 00:39:57.076

<v SPEAKER_2>The book is really designed to try to do all of that think work for you, provide those invisible load maps for you so that I'm not putting more labor on your shoulders.

00:39:57.416 --> 00:40:02.156

<v SPEAKER_2>Really meant to try to bring some space and capacity into this role.

00:40:02.176 --> 00:40:04.216

<v SPEAKER_2>We want to enjoy our roles as mothers.

00:40:04.236 --> 00:40:06.436

<v SPEAKER_2>We don't want to resent our roles.

00:40:06.456 --> 00:40:07.476

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's the goal.

00:40:07.496 --> 00:40:08.956

<v SPEAKER_2>That's the journey that I take people on.

00:40:09.036 --> 00:40:10.536

<v SPEAKER_2>Thank you so much for having me.

00:40:10.556 --> 00:40:10.976

<v SPEAKER_1>Thank you.

00:40:10.996 --> 00:40:11.916

<v SPEAKER_1>And thank you for your time today.

00:40:11.936 --> 00:40:12.796

<v SPEAKER_1>I really appreciate it.

00:40:12.816 --> 00:40:16.476

<v SPEAKER_1>I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Erica Djossa.

00:40:16.496 --> 00:40:20.736

<v SPEAKER_1>Whenever I get off of a conversation with her, I feel like I just went through like the most intense therapy session.

00:40:20.776 --> 00:40:23.276

<v SPEAKER_1>And I just I love all the phrases.

00:40:23.296 --> 00:40:25.976

<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, I'm not a clinical psychologist or a psychotherapist.

00:40:25.996 --> 00:40:28.756

<v SPEAKER_1>So I love when they have these terms like weaponized incompetence.

00:40:28.776 --> 00:40:31.456

<v SPEAKER_1>And I'm like, and unpacking all of this invisible load stuff.

00:40:31.476 --> 00:40:32.456

<v SPEAKER_1>I think it's so interesting.

00:40:32.676 --> 00:40:34.176

<v SPEAKER_1>And I really appreciate her insight.

00:40:34.376 --> 00:40:37.676

<v SPEAKER_1>I really love this idea of itemizing all the things that you're doing.

00:40:37.696 --> 00:40:41.076

<v SPEAKER_1>Like sometimes I just need to like go through a list and tell my husband all the things that I did today.

00:40:41.096 --> 00:40:43.836

<v SPEAKER_1>And he's like, are you just telling me this so you can prove that you're a better person than me?

00:40:43.856 --> 00:40:45.216

<v SPEAKER_1>And I was like, maybe.

00:40:45.236 --> 00:40:51.396

<v SPEAKER_1>But I just want to like quantify the volume of things that you have to do as a mom that frankly, I think a lot of dads don't have to deal with.

00:40:51.416 --> 00:41:00.316

<v SPEAKER_1>So I appreciate Erica and all of her coping strategies because maybe listing off a list of all the things I do every day is not like the best communication with my husband.

00:41:00.336 --> 00:41:01.976

<v SPEAKER_1>But maybe that's for a different episode.

00:41:01.996 --> 00:41:12.476

<v SPEAKER_1>So if you want to check out all of the resources, including Erica's brand new book, it'll be on the show notes page for this episode, which you could find at blwpodcast.com forward slash four to two.

00:41:12.876 --> 00:41:15.176

<v SPEAKER_1>Thank you to our partners at Airwave Media.

00:41:15.196 --> 00:41:22.096

<v SPEAKER_1>If you guys like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the shows from Airwave or online at blwpodcast.com.

00:41:22.236 --> 00:41:24.056

<v SPEAKER_1>Thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you next time.