Ditching Diet Culture: Fostering Your Baby’s Healthy Food Relationship with Vanessa Rissetto, MS, RD

Whisker (1s):

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Vanessa Rissetto (1m 39s):

It is bad, right? Like when someone s telling you to like restrict calories and count calories and over obsess about food And you know it's a baby. But like how are you around food? Maybe some days you want to eat the meal and some days you don't. Maybe that's how the baby is too. Like I mean Give them a break.

Katie Ferraro (1m 54s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby led weaning. Here on the Baby led weaning with Katie Ferraro podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning. A lot of moms I talk to have A similar fear 'cause there's a lot of really weird diet culture stuff floating around out there and they'll tell me, Katie, I don't want my baby to grow up with all the messed up food stuff that I came up with, right?

Katie Ferraro (2m 36s):

The guilt, the pressure, the labeling foods like good food, bad food, okay, the obsession with weight, the stress that we carry, especially as women around food and eating. And if any of this sounds familiar, then this episode is really going to resonate with you because we're gonna be talking about how to step away from diet culture and how to start fostering a healthier relationship with food for your baby from their very first bites because you can do it. 'cause honestly like diet culture is one of those terms. I know it's like so cliche gets thrown around all the time, especially in the world of nutrition. But what does that actually mean? Okay, what does it look like when you're feeding a baby and how do you stay like 10,000 miles away from it?

Katie Ferraro (3m 19s):

I wanted to talk about this because it gets into a question that a lot of parents are grappling with and they wanna deal with it in an honest and a practical way. So my guest today who's way better at talking about this stuff than me is Vanessa Roseto. Vanessa's a registered dietician, she's the founder and CEO of Kina Health. She's formerly the director of the NYU Dietetic internship at New York University. So this is a conversation that we recorded a few years back when she was just getting Collina Health off the ground. Since then, her company has grown tremendously. She's, they've become a leading nutrition care provider known for making personalized nutrition support more accessible and more inclusive. Vanessa, I love her 'cause she's a mom, she's a straight talker, okay?

Katie Ferraro (4m 2s):

She has a very refreshingly down to earth approach to food and feeding and In this conversation she's gonna break down what diet culture actually looks like, where it shows up how parents can avoid passing food stress onto their kids and why less pressure around eating often leads to better outcomes over time. We're gonna talk a little bit about food language 'cause I know for me sometimes that's really hard to like pick the right words. I kinda have to practice with scripts. So she's giving us the language to use on how to create positive feeding dynamics at home and then what does it look like to raise a child who feels more comfortable and more confident around food. So I really hope you enjoy this conversation with Vanessa tto all about Ditching Diet Culture and how to foster your baby's healthy food relationship.

Katie Ferraro (4m 48s):

So with no further ado, here's Vanessa Rissetto.

Vanessa Rissetto (4m 55s):

I actually went to college and studied history and then I went back to school. I got a master's in marketing and then I went back to school and became a dietician because I actually, after college went to see a dietician who, Carrie Glassman, who actually is a good friend of mine. Oh

Katie Ferraro (5m 10s):

Yeah, I know Katie.

Vanessa Rissetto (5m 10s):

She is like great. And I thought she was so smart and she talked about nutrition and it was in this like digestible way and it really helped me And I was like, wow, it's kind of like medicine, which I'm interested in, but also it's about food, which I'm also interested in. So let me apply. And I got in and then I just went from there and here I am 11 years later.

Katie Ferraro (5m 30s):

Can I ask you what it was about like history, marketing, like what was not fulfilling to you that you like went to go do a third thing? 'cause that's pretty major. Like it's not like you just become a dietician overnight.

Vanessa Rissetto (5m 40s):

Yeah, So I did start college as a pre-med major, but I, you know, wanted to party. I was like, this is, this is not for me

Katie Ferraro (5m 48s):

And dietitians like to party, let me just tell you.

Vanessa Rissetto (5m 50s):

Yeah, I wanted to like hang out. And so then I decided, but I always was like an A student so like how am I going to get a's with like minimal effort, how do I do this? And So I was like, oh I'm gonna be a history major because they just seem to like read and write papers. Except by the way, I had to read like a thousand pages a week and write papers all day long. So it wasn't easy. And then after that I was like, well I don't know what I'm gonna do. Maybe I'll go work. And I worked this like marketing job, I worked for Lifetime Television And I thought all right, I'll just go get a degree in marketing 'cause that seems like what the path is 'cause I'm already here. But it just really wasn't for me 'cause I didn't see how I was helping people And I really wanted to like that's my personality, right? I like, I'm always helping, I'm a solutions oriented person and so you know, just kind of twists and turns and here I am,

Katie Ferraro (6m 35s):

Big lifetime fan, which has helped me a lot I have to say. Yeah. So I know it's not for everyone but okay. I know people outside of the nutrition field, they don't always realize what it is that a dietician can do. And So I just in chatting with you I'm like oh my gosh you're so similar. 'cause like you do a lot of different things at one time because there are so many cool things you can do. Like could you just tell us a little bit about the jobs you've had in nutrition and then how would you currently describe your job?

Vanessa Rissetto (6m 59s):

Yeah, so it's so funny 'cause you know whenever anyone asks about nutrition they think you're like, like I don't know, you take food orders. It's very weird. They like never

Katie Ferraro (7m 6s):

Really, they think you bring jello to the nurses at the hospital. Yeah.

Vanessa Rissetto (7m 10s):

Like they do not know that you take biochemistry and organic chemistry and anatomy and physiology. Like when they hear all of that they're like oh okay. So there's that. You know, we do a lot of math but I've had so many jobs, right? I've worked in the hospital, I've worked in home and infusion. So any kind of nutrition in the vein in the, in the stomach, right? And then, and I've written, I've written out the, you know the TPN orders and the two feed orders and changed the notes so the patient would get like insurance coverage. I've worked in a private practice, right? It's somebody else's private practice where I then saw like well I can do this myself so I'll just do it myself. I've actually also worked for large corporations. So I worked for a company that did like really extensive like health screens for the employees of Fortune 500 companies.

Vanessa Rissetto (7m 56s):

And then would give them like this whole you know, docket of like this is what's going on with you and this is how you fix it. And then at the end of that there was health coaching for like, you know, however long a year because what that did was it allowed the employer to say this is what my employee looks like so that they could then get lower insurance rates, right? So it's this whole thing. So people don't really realize how like intricate and important nutrition can be but it's like multifaceted. I've also been like in-house nutrition for really big companies. I've worked with celebrities like, I mean I've done so many different crazy things, written articles. So being a dietician you can do so much. You don't just have to be doing a private practice or being in a hospital.

Vanessa Rissetto (8m 38s):

Nutrition can translate so many other ways. I haven't personally done it but you know, I've plenty of friends that work for food companies, even like the dietician that works for Ziggy's Yogurt for example. She created that job, she wrote to them and was like, this is why you need a dietician

Katie Ferraro (8m 51s):

Dude. And Ziggy loves dieticians now. Like because of her. Yeah,

Vanessa Rissetto (8m 54s):

It's cool. Exactly.

Katie Ferraro (8m 55s):

No, I always tell students that like the job you want, you're never gonna find it on a job board. Like you have to go out and create it. But anywhere where there's food and not currently a dietician, there's a role for you. You just need to figure it out.

Vanessa Rissetto (9m 6s):

That's right, that's right.

Katie Ferraro (9m 7s):

So talk a little bit about your role. 'cause I know you're, you are in a private practice now, which I think is crazy how fast you guys have grown that in New York City or in the New York area, which is like just insane and during COVID. And then also could you just tell us a little bit about what you do on the education side as the dietetic internship director too?

Vanessa Rissetto (9m 25s):

Yeah, So I had a private practice on my own and then a friend who was also had our own private practice on her own. We met one day for coffee and decided that we would merge those private practices. So we started just with two dieticians in ourselves. So four of us seeing patients and then it just got busier and busier. And so now we have nine dieticians and an office manager and social media And you know, a biller who is amazing and chases all of our money and we can't be without him or his wife. They're wonderful. And so that's, that feels really good 'cause we're helping people and we take insurance so it makes nutrition and wellness accessible like to the masses, right? You know, it's all fine and well to charge a thousand dollars for a nutrition session if that's what you want to do.

Vanessa Rissetto (10m 5s):

And there are people that will pay for that, but what about the person who can't pay for that, right? Like where does that leave them? And So I think it's our obligation or our duty to make sure that we are doing everything we can so that people can be healthy and can really do it in like an actionable way. Like giving them tangible resources, things that they can do to excel. And then like about two and a half years ago, the former director of the dietetic internship was made a dean. And so she called me at funny on vacation and she's like, Hey I got promoted. And I was like, alright, like you could have just waited till I got back to like tell me that. I was like, don't care. And she's like, oh no, no, no I need, I need help to get a new person. I was like, oh. So I started like naming all these people, I thought that would be great.

Vanessa Rissetto (10m 46s):

And she's like, no, no that person is you. And I was like ah, okay great.

Katie Ferraro (10m 50s):

Okay, So I was so excited to interview you today because we're talking about the topic of Ditching Diet Culture and fostering your baby's healthy relationship with food. So before we dive into that, could you just share your thoughts on exactly what this quote unquote diet culture that we all hear about, like what does that even refer to?

Vanessa Rissetto (11m 5s):

I know this diet culture is like so exhausting,

Katie Ferraro (11m 8s):

It's such a buzzword but I'm like what is it everyone talks about how bad it is. Like tell us why

Vanessa Rissetto (11m 12s):

It is bad, right? Like when someone's telling you to like restrict calories and count calories And you know, over obsess about food And you know, do this diet or you know, Adele did this diet, JLo did this diet, Beyonce did this diet. It's like okay, okay, okay, I get it. But also like guys with a brain, like you don't have JLo money so you're never gonna be able to execute JLo's diet, right?

Katie Ferraro (11m 29s):

Like yeah She

Vanessa Rissetto (11m 30s):

Has a team of people like slapping the food out of her hand And you know, massaging her face and like making her meals and working her out and watching her kids. So like don't try to do what she's doing. That's number one. Number two, diet culture of course like nobody with a brain in their head subscribes to diet culture. Why would I want to turn you into somebody who is so over obsessed and hyper-focused on food? However there are all these like gray areas in between where like everyone's coming at you. So like If you are prescriptive to your patient then people are saying that like you're feeding into diet culture. But am I really? So like for example, I have a patient who is pre-diabetic and she was intermittent fasting and doing this and doing that and but also like intuitively eating, guess what?

Vanessa Rissetto (12m 14s):

That doesn't work for her because she's intermittent fasting, she liver's doing gluconeogenesis or pumping out too much sugar. Like there's too much happening here. So I had to get prescriptive And I had to say you need to be eating this much star at breakfast, this much starch at lunch, this much starch at dinner, this, this, this and this because we're trying to control numbers. So I think it's like a little bit dangerous when we're like, okay, diet culture and then we lump everything in there because for the regular person they don't understand that. So they're just like, oh well this dietician says intuitively eat that means I can eat whatever I want. It's not clear I if we have to really be deliberate about the language, like yeah I don't subscribe to any diet. I think a diet is stupid, it's not sustainable. Let's move on from that.

Katie Ferraro (12m 54s):

Yeah, but you're talking like perfect example like medical nutrition therapy. That person has a diagnosis. We know from a science standpoint the way carbohydrates and then long periods without carbohydrates for that person who's gonna react. Like no offense, a celebrity nutritionist who like got her degree from a diploma mill online is not gonna be able to do that. It's, you know, you're just showing like why we do need registered dieticians involved in diet is just what you eat. Like

Vanessa Rissetto (13m 16s):

That's right, that's right. But what you said is very important, right? We know science and for some reason everybody's like, nobody wants to deal with science, we're all moving away from science. We're like Guys, science works.

Katie Ferraro (13m 27s):

That is another episode about why science works. Yeah.

KiwiCo (13m 29s):

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Katie Ferraro (15m 24s):

Can you just share the story that you're just telling me about, like the patient that you just had, it was talking about her own daughter and like when she started to gain weight it was like really eye-opening. Yeah,

Vanessa Rissetto (15m 32s):

I have this patience. I love them, they're wonderful. They've done really well with me and they noted to me that, you know, the wife said yesterday, this is the age that I started to blow up. And I'm like, okay, but your daughter is literally only three years old and she's like, but she's always asking for food

Katie Ferraro (15m 49s):

And have you met three year olds? They all just ask for food.

Vanessa Rissetto (15m 52s):

Exactly. That's the other thing. That's the other thing. It's like you're really nervous 'cause your kid is always asking for food but like that's all a 3-year-old knows that they can control, right? Like they're like I can control what I'm eating sort of So I'm gonna ask for food if it's bothering you, like you can offer your kid water, you can offer your kid vegetables and fruit so that you're not offering them like overly processed things. And also you can also just shift you know what's happening. So like If you, you notice that you're, you're not paying attention to your kid, your kid is you know, having a free time and you've already fed her and she's asking for food, then you can say hey let's go outside and play, let's go for a walk. Right? What is it for you to go for a walk around the block and then if your kid comes home and is still asking for food, feed your kid.

Vanessa Rissetto (16m 33s):

'cause your kid is probably hungry, it is growing. So like your kid is not going to be overweight or have issues because you are feeding your kid nutritious food. Who cares if your kid eats six oranges today? I mean who cares? It's

Katie Ferraro (16m 47s):

Not like, yeah And I think parents feel like pressured, especially the snacks, you know, especially for babies. Like other dieticians love to say, oh babies need snacks. Babies do not need snacks. Babies don't even know how to eat yet the milk that they're having in between the meals that you're feeding them is their snack. And it's okay to say no to snacks. Like you can have your own food rules. Even if they go against like what everyone else at the park is doing. Like my kids will say, well these, they have snacks, we just don't eat snacks. Why? Because we're on a pretty tight schedule And I need you guys to eat at dinner. That's our food rules. That's what works for us. And parents are like, you can do that. Like yes, you can have your own food rules. My friend Julia Noran out here in California, she's a chef and a Pediatric dietitian, which is like a doctor who knows about food is unheard of. Yeah. But she always, she has this like beautiful analogy of writing your family's food story, like essentially your child and your baby is a blank slate.

Katie Ferraro (17m 32s):

Like they don't already have all the messed up stuff about food that we do and we don't have to perpetuate that in our babies. And I think that's what our listeners are interested in. Like our audience is made up mostly moms and babies of babies transitioning to solid foods and it can be so stressful. And I know moms tell me all the time that they're nervous because maybe they themselves don't have the best relationship with food. So what advice do you have for moms who are venturing into this next phase of their baby's life with food but they have a lot of the same anxieties that you're seeing in your practice? Like what do you tell these parents?

Vanessa Rissetto (18m 1s):

Yeah, well first and foremost I always tell people like you are your kids best Pediatric dietitian. Like you know your kid best. That does not mean that, you know, you don't take information from the doctor And you know, do with it what you will. But if, like you said, If you notice that your kid snacks too much and then doesn't eat the dinner that you provide and then is up at nine o'clock asking for food, then something has to change. That doesn't mean that you're gonna give your kid some disordered eating pattern, right? Like what is really important to you? Also at the same time, if your kid is only eating like this much food, right? Like you know, a little like a tablespoon, how much does a three-year-old need? They need like three tablespoons of food at a clip. So you don't really need to be dousing so much on the plate.

Vanessa Rissetto (18m 44s):

Like it makes total sense that if your kid is only needing really three tablespoons of food at a time, that they would be hungrier more often, right? Yeah. Like those are the things,

Katie Ferraro (18m 53s):

Or even for babies, they don't, they don't even know hunger yet. We gotta let them learn how to eat so they can eventually recognize what hunger is. But it's, the dietician parents are the hardest because they're like so obsessed with like the quantity and the volume of foods. Like dude that does not matter. Doesn't matter. That's not why we're here,

Vanessa Rissetto (19m 7s):

Right? Just feed the kid. Right? So, you know, feed your kid a breakfast, what can that breakfast have? Like I always make sure that the breakfast always has to have like a fruit in it just because like you want them to have some fiber, right? Because a lot of the things are just, they're, they're not gonna eat cucumbers and carrots and any of those things, right? It's hard to get

Katie Ferraro (19m 24s):

That. Well you're like, that's so tongue in cheek that you're saying that, but parents are like, dude I can't feed my baby fruit. They're gonna get a sweet tooth, they're gonna have an affinity for fruit, they're never gonna eat vegetables. I'm like dude, you shouldn't have all fruit at every single meal. But like you just point out like fruit has fiber. Like there are things besides the flavor compounds going on here too.

Vanessa Rissetto (19m 40s):

Correct. And also I wouldn't just give my kid fruit by an oatmeal or maybe I would make like a high protein pancake for the ba, you know, and like small amounts rip it up, put it in front of them and let them feed themselves, right? Give them some autonomy like giving them, you know, sweet potatoes. I, you know, when my kids were little like babies, they ate everything right? So we would like puree the sweet potato puree, the Brussels sprouts, like put them in the cubes, put like a meat and a and a vegetable and then the side of fruit and then they would eat it and then like you know, they turned like 18 months and they were like, yeah no we're not doing that anymore. We're we want pouches and yogurt and air. And so that's what I fed them. I just didn't care. I was like this is America. We're not in a food compromised situation.

Vanessa Rissetto (20m 22s):

Everyone's gonna grow. And they did. And So I think that the more that you remove the language, you don't, don't feed into it. My mother would be like, oh my god Rocco, my son is Rocco seven, Rocco didn't eat anything today, but yogurt and peanut butter and now he's gonna go to bed and he won't eat this food that we put in front of him. I'm like, Rocco's two, who cares? Drink water. And I

Katie Ferraro (20m 43s):

Love how like you, I feel like you have like the hindsight of a mom who has seven and nine year olds. Yeah. Because you're like so chill. Now I wanna ask you, because I know your business partner just had her first baby and so just curious If you were like starting over, if that was you And you were having the baby right now, knowing what you know, would you feed your baby differently or would you do everything the same?

Vanessa Rissetto (21m 1s):

I would do everything the same. I have to tell you, even when I had my daughter And I had Kate, I remember everybody always saying like, my baby has reflux, my baby has reflux, my baby has reflux, my baby has reflux, right?

Katie Ferraro (21m 12s):

We're doing a separate episode on my baby has

Vanessa Rissetto (21m 14s):

Reflux. Yeah, right. And like I was the GI dietician at Mount Sinai So I was like, well maybe because my baby's stomach is the size of a marble. So I never felt some kind of way when my kid was, you know, after they ate and they would be a little bit cranky, I would make sure I burp them really well. And so then after like a month or you know six weeks, all of that stuff sort of subsided because they, they grew into it. I knew that intellectually. So I kept going with that. I definitely had like routines And I definitely like noted things like I would nurse my baby And I would, you know, I remember one time I just like, I was eating a bunch of fruit at my aunt's house And I was nursing my daughter and then you know, it was like liquid poop And I was like right, 'cause it was all the, all the fruit, right? So I I knew that right.

Vanessa Rissetto (21m 55s):

No big deal. She was fine. She wasn't, she didn't have any discomfort. So I think because of everything that I knew, I think my kids have like pretty good eating habits but also at the same time like they're seven and nine And I have to be like there needs to be a vegetable on your plate. Please, please, please. So I cut the vegetables, I get like whole carrots, cucumbers, red bell, peppers, cucumbers And I put them in a container in the fridge and so they have to go into the refrigerator and they have to get that and put that on their lunch plate and their dinner plate. They are responsible for that. They have to have one fruit every day. That's not me like controlling per se. It's me being like look you have to develop this habit because I have a friend who is a dietician, her husband's a doctor, I'm not even lying, he only eats chicken nuggets and french fries.

Vanessa Rissetto (22m 36s):

His parents never made a amazing Oh

Katie Ferraro (22m 37s):

He is a palate of a 5-year-old. I love that. I know it. I'll like that. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not like proud of it but they also don't wanna replicate that in their kids. And we see that with a lot of moms like okay my husband or partner is super picky. I myself have like some messed up stuff about food as most women do And I don't wanna go replicate this for my kids. So you approach is kind of like stop stressing so much about it. But I feel like that's easier said than done. What can we do to like when you feel that anxiety bubbling up and you're like, 'cause babies can sense when you are stressed, if you're stressed about them gagging, they feel that like how can we tamp that down? And I don't even know like I'm not a in nutrition therapy but like what can parents do when they feel that anxiety of brown food coming up but they don't wanna like perpetuate those feelings of stress to their baby.

Vanessa Rissetto (23m 19s):

Yeah. So I always think like education is key, right? So I loved Ruth Yaron has this book, it's called Super Baby Food. Okay. I like gifted to anybody who's pregnant, it's awesome because she like breaks down the age of the child and what are the new foods like that can be introduced. So it's really cool, right? Like you can just like open this page up and be like, oh she says at seven months the baby can have, I don't know, mangoes. Okay great. I'm going to, and oh by the way my, my kid is teething so I'm gonna do some like frozen mangoes. I'm gonna try like maybe I'll make my kid you know, a little smoothie or maybe I'll just gonna like cut up the mango and put it on the side with their breakfast and like let's see if they like that.

Vanessa Rissetto (23m 60s):

So like every month you can build And you don't have to try every new thing that she puts on there, but at least it's like a guide. So I think if people are guided properly, they're like okay, I don't feel so stressed out about this right here in this book it says I can introduce this to my kid and if your kid likes it, they like it. If they don't like it, move on to the next thing

Katie Ferraro (24m 18s):

You move on. Exactly. And I think we, I have teach a whole approach to baby led weaning called the hundred First Foods program. Which is basically to feed your baby a hundred different foods before they turn one. And people are like, what's the magic deal with a hundred? It's not magic but most babies have 10 or 15 foods under the belt by the time they turn one And you said it then they become picky eaters. You lose those 10 or 15 foods, you're screwed. That's a really hard child to feed. But if a baby's been exposed to a hundred different foods that they like and accept And you lose 10 or 15, no big deal, you still have this whole variety of foods you can feed. And if they don't love Brussels sprouts, they at least like you've got a few other green things in your arsenal that your, your kid will eat. It's just the variety and and the diet diversity that we know the research is showing like diet diversity is everything and most kids only have like the dino chicken nuggets and the quesadillas and the white and the brown foods and Right.

Katie Ferraro (25m 4s):

There are so many more foods. Exactly. Babies can eat so many more foods than we give them credit for. I, And I agree with you, education is key. Just like knowing that.

Vanessa Rissetto (25m 11s):

Right. Also like let's not forget Brussels sprouts don't taste good. Oh

Katie Ferraro (25m 14s):

With a lot of oil and salt there like doable I feel like.

Vanessa Rissetto (25m 17s):

Yes. Yes totally. And my husband like does this like balsamic glaze and like maple syrup and like that's delicious. But like when you're 15 months old and someone's feeding you a pureed Brussels sprout, not gross. It's not really delicious.

Katie Ferraro (25m 29s):

Yeah and not safe either. Like right.

Vanessa Rissetto (25m 32s):

Like God it's like come on. So that's the thing, it's like don't also feel this pressure to give the kid like my kid has to have broccoli and the kid has to have kale. It's like relax,

Katie Ferraro (25m 45s):

Adjust. Yeah. And I think If you go the other end like kind of feeding into that, like you talk about where parents are getting all this pressure from is like when parents talk about kale there's this great article, it's like so tongue and cheek about baby led weaning. It's like your kale eating baby does not impress me. It's like one of my favorite headlines ever. And it's like parents like, oh my baby's eating kale. I'm like no they're not. They're sucking green colored applesauce out of a pouch that is like less than 1% kale. You just paid $4 for that. Whereas like from a developmental standpoint, babies don't need to suck out a pouches And I can show you a safe way to like have them eat kale among other things. But like don't kid yourself into thinking this is some like gourmet amazing food. It's just applesauce that's colored green that you paid way too much money for. 'cause we're getting pressure of course from the baby food industry as well with this perception of like, your baby's eating ka.

Katie Ferraro (26m 27s):

Like no they're not. Right,

Vanessa Rissetto (26m 28s):

Right. I know And you know, I always feel like the mom is at the park are like in competition, right? Like they're, they'll be like,

Katie Ferraro (26m 35s):

Like you know as a dietician mom people are like, oh I bet you eat this way 'cause you're a dietician And I love to hear you be like, no, some days we just have peanut butter and yogurt and like, you know what, I'm not really aware of any children who have ever died because for a few days they just ate peanut butter and yogurt.

Vanessa Rissetto (26m 47s):

It's funny because people do comment like one time we were at the park And I just like bought a bunch of cupcakes And I was like look the mini ones like, And I was like, okay everybody cupcakes. They're like I can't believe you brought these. I'm like, oh

Katie Ferraro (26m 58s):

Are these gluten-free and sugar? Look, people ask me all the time, can you gimme a recipe for like a sugar free gluten free smash cake? No. No. If your family eats cake like I'm pro cake. Well babies shouldn't have added sugar. Are they eating cake every day? It's a sometimes food like on their freaking birthday. In our family we eat cake and people go, I cannot believe you are endorsing cake for children. I'm like well I can't believe you just took that entirely out of context. But like again, you're not every, I'm not everyone's cup of tea And you know, If you wanna make a sugar free smash cake for your kid, that's fine. But that's not the type of cake I eat in my family. So

Vanessa Rissetto (27m 25s):

Yeah, it's funny that you, I mean we're clearly soulmates 'cause somebody was like, oh what do you think about black bean brownies? I'm like disgusting. I would never make that gross. The waste of time. That

Katie Ferraro (27m 33s):

Whole freaking and that's Jerry Seinfeld's wife who started that like this notion of like, oh I'm just gonna put vegetables and hide them in desserts. And it's like, oh good. So now we're teaching our kids that there's something inherently distasteful or bad about vegetables that they should be all hidden in brownies. Same.

Vanessa Rissetto (27m 48s):

You can't hide from them. You have to show them that they are also in control. You have to give them autonomy like right Ellen Satter have, everyone reads Ellen Satter like feeding your family. Right. The division of responsibility you have to like offer the child the safe food and then the new foods that you want them to try. So yeah, If you know your kid is always going to eat chicken, then you always offer the chicken and then the vegetables next to it and then, and we don't talk about it. We just eventually they will eat them. My son used to terrorize us about food. Horrible. Like he was great then he was horrible and my mom and my husband would be freaking out And I would just be like, I literally don't care dude.

Katie Ferraro (28m 23s):

Alan Satter, the division of responsibility is like the be it takes all the pressure off you. It's not your job. Yeah. To make the baby eat you guys, she says you're in charge of what the baby eats and where they eat and when they eat you just do your job, put your head down, stay in your lane. I love her. Yep. And over here the baby decides how much or even whether they eat And I think for parents who have anxiety about food, like just remember that post it on your fridge If you have to. It's not your job to make your baby eat and you're gonna mess that kid up If you make them eat everything. Like is that true? Like do you see the aftermath of that? Like in your practice, like parents who are forced to eat like they turn in, they have messed up relationships with food.

Vanessa Rissetto (29m 0s):

They do. I said that last night. I was like, when you are talking to your kids about what they should and shouldn't eat when you are like making them feel put upon, they always end up in my office. But I will tell you in my own house with my son who was refusing to eat things and my husband like be going into like a blind rage, I'd be like, honestly, why are you arguing with the 5-year-old? Like you need go in your corner like And I know what I'm doing here so go, go do whatever it is that you do. But now my son is fine, he a you know, eats the Turkey burgers, he eats the rice and beans, he eats the chicken, he eats his vegetable every day. He eats a fruit every day. He's fine. And like,

Katie Ferraro (29m 35s):

But he doesn't like magically do that. You've gotta give yourself credit like you are the one at least ensuring that there's some colorful foods in the refrigerator. Like it's not like yeah they don't magically eat red bell peppers.

Vanessa Rissetto (29m 44s):

I had to keep going, keep going. But the thing was is that I never made a big deal. Also, by the way guys, my kids are free to get a dessert every day, right? Remember Ellen Satter says like sometimes the snack or the food can be like chips and things that are like not considered healthy doesn't matter. So like on Halloween I let my kids eat all the candy they want and then the next day they're allowed to take one piece but they have to be like in control. If they're not able to be in control then we don't handle those in the house. I'm telling you, the kids at the end, like they don't even care. They don't care. They like forgot that it was there.

Katie Ferraro (30m 14s):

They don't even notice it when you take it all away, they

Vanessa Rissetto (30m 16s):

Don't even notice it. They don't care. You throw it out, you do all these things, it's fine. So that is really the thing is like let them explore, let them experiment. Don't be afraid. Nothing bad is gonna happen if you're kitty to Twix. I swear.

Katie Ferraro (30m 30s):

No, I know. And when honestly, 'cause you And I both worked in media for a long time too, but like when a publication's like can you write an article about sugar free healthy Halloween? And I was like, no, no, because Halloween is not about like sugar free. I'm not gonna give out raisins and apples on Halloween. I mean no I'm not going to because in my particular food culture, that's not how we celebrate. Like I don't wanna make people feel bad for celebrating with sugar if that's what they do.

Vanessa Rissetto (30m 51s):

Right, exactly. I, you know, the only thing that I don't let my kids have, it's like juice saying there is never any juice in my house. I agree. But when they go to birthday parties they'll be like, so Catherine didn't eat any pizza or cake but she's had like six juice boxes. I'm like, it's totally fine. We don't get it at home. So like let her do her thing.

Katie Ferraro (31m 9s):

I feel the same about juice. And I think a lot of parents are, especially first time parents are really surprised like, whoa, what do you mean no juice? I thought kids need to drink juice. It's like, and I mean you know in our formal nutrition training, you go do a nutrition 10 book, it's always got a picture and there's juice there. It's like, yeah where did this notion come from that kids need juice. Like they don't, we know not only promotes dental caries and obesity, but like just like adults eat your fruit, don't drink it. Like, And I feel confident being like dude, no juice. But and even If you look at the size of the juice boxes, they're bigger than what the upper end for like recommended daily intake for juices. Even when you're like past two, it's like it's what you gonna do take the juice box away from the kid when it's three quarters of the way full. Like you try to take a juice box away from a kid, it's just easier. Yeah. Not to have it. We sometimes have it at parties like it's a sometimes food.

Vanessa Rissetto (31m 50s):

Exactly. It's sometimes food and I'm just like, people are like, you have to let the kid have whatever. I'm like no way. If I let my kids, if there was juice in the house, they would drink 18 containers of it a day. There is no benefit here. But what's also interesting is the other day my friend, the kid was sick, had an upset stomach and they gave the kid apple juice and she was like, oh my god, help me. I was like, yeah the more sugar, the more cramping, the more peristalsis

Katie Ferraro (32m 12s):

The kid like massive diarrhea.

Vanessa Rissetto (32m 14s):

Diarrhea. And she was like, I had no idea. I was like, stop with the juice. Do you have a electrolyte water? She was like, Vanessa, I don't have a electrolyte

Katie Ferraro (32m 21s):

Water. Seven up. What did you drink when I was a kid? You had ginger ale and we're all fine. You know, I was

Vanessa Rissetto (32m 26s):

Like, just put some Himalayan tea salt in some water and call it a day. She was like, okay

Katie Ferraro (32m 30s):

You're making your own oral rehydration solution. I love it.

‎Mindful Mama (32m 33s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back. What do you do when your toddler melts down or your teen shuts down? I want to introduce you to the Mindful Mama podcast. I'm Hunter Clark Fields's author of Raising Good Humans and your host For the past 10 years, I used to be a yelling overwhelmed mom until I found mindfulness and practical parenting tools that changed everything. Each week I bring you honest conversations and expert advice to help you regulate your emotions, manage your kids' behavior with compassion and break the cycle of reactive parenting. Whether you're raising toddlers or teens, you'll find real strategies for conscious parenting. Screen time, A DHD and more. Listen to the Mindful Mama podcast wherever you get your podcast because you can raise kind confident kids without losing your Cool.

Katie Ferraro (33m 31s):

Okay, so can we talk a little bit about language? Because I know like when I got into infant feeding, there's all the like do's and don'ts. Like never call your child a picky eater because you are labeling your child. Like, And I don't know If you agree with this or not, but like for parents who are just learning about feeding, like, and as someone who works, you work with people kind of on the other end when the parents have like come to you like, okay listen I need help. What words can we avoid when we're talking about food with our kid? Or just a good idea to like stay away from. And then I don't know If you feel more comfortable saying like, well these are the words I use, but if there's words you're like, no, don't say those words around your kid 'cause it's kind of gonna mess 'em up. Do you have any tips around language?

Vanessa Rissetto (34m 6s):

Yeah, so first of all, I never comment on anyone's appearance. Never. So I'll never say like, oh you look great today. Or like, I just don't do that on purpose because I just don't want anyone to feel that their self-worth is predicated upon what they look like, what their clothes look like, what their hair looks like. So that is something that I don't ever say. But what's so funny is that the other day we were watching the Grammys And I was like, what is she wearing? And my daughter's like, that's not very nice to talk about the way someone looks. It was so funny. And I, you know, I was like, oh okay. Yeah. You know, even, even if it's the Grammy's, right? So it's, it's carried over. Thank you Catherine. But So I don't do that. Never obviously, you know, like I don't wanna be fat, like I never talk about my weight or you know, we don't, we don't get on the scale.

Vanessa Rissetto (34m 50s):

The only reason we got on the scale the other day was because my daughter wanted to see if she can come out of her car seat and we were like, okay, oh

Katie Ferraro (34m 55s):

That's a good one.

Vanessa Rissetto (34m 56s):

So you have to be so we okay, yes you have to be 70 pounds so yes you can come out of your car seat. She was like, yes, like so happy. But otherwise we don't weigh them. And then when we talk about food, like I'll say you have to have protein in your meal, right? So if, if my daughter's like I just want spaghetti and butter, I'm like, that's fine, but you need to have a protein and the reason you have to have a protein is because protein helps for us to feel full

Katie Ferraro (35m 18s):

And you don't come back in five minutes asking me for a snack.

Vanessa Rissetto (35m 20s):

That's it. I don't care what you eat, I don't want to be concerned with figuring out what to feed you in two minutes. So I always talk about food in that sense. How can we keep ourselves properly fueled? So we always need to have fat protein and carbohydrate. Protein keeps us full. So they get that now. So my son will be like, is this protein, is this chicken protein? Okay, that's what I'm eating. Like then they know because

Katie Ferraro (35m 41s):

They do start asking like my oldest is six and she can read now. So she's like, we're sitting there and she sees calories like what's a calorie? I'm like, oh my god, this is a loaded question. And then I kind of like brush it off for a while and the other day she's like, how come calories don't matter to kids but adults care about them? I'm like, dude, where did you learn that adults care about calories? I'm like, it's not that we, it's like, you know, you use the car and the gas analogy And you gotta fuel the body and it gives you energy. But like I literally tried to shelter them from all this stuff and she's still like asking about calories. Like how do you answer that? 'cause I don't wanna talk about calories to a 6-year-old.

Vanessa Rissetto (36m 10s):

Okay. So my 7-year-old asked me what a calorie was And I was like, it's the amount of heat energy it takes to

Katie Ferraro (36m 15s):

Rate heat. The one liter of water, one degree Celsius. What a nutrition nerd. Yeah.

Vanessa Rissetto (36m 19s):

So I told him that and he was like, oh and so, So I said calories. I did explain to him not all calories are created equal. If I had a hundred calories of an apple with peanut butter versus a hundred calories of a cookie, right? Or just like, let me tell you how it would work. He got it. He understood and he was like, okay. So I kind of sometimes get a little scientific with them And I know that like the regular person is not able to do that. But If you tell them like when you have protein, fat and carb together, that's gonna help keep you full and stabilize your blood sugar,

Katie Ferraro (36m 49s):

That's science. That's not diet culture. Like that's science, right?

Vanessa Rissetto (36m 51s):

That's science. Just science. And guess what? Kids like science, they like it.

Katie Ferraro (36m 56s):

They like the application of science. I totally feel you.

Vanessa Rissetto (36m 58s):

Yes, they wanna know how things work. So yeah, just tell them that.

Katie Ferraro (37m 2s):

But at the right age, like I have parents who are like, especially dietician parents, like, oh, but she only had 30 calories. I had one mom calculating like the milligrams of iron she thought her baby was absorbing from food versus what her breast milk has, you know, minus the calcium, which was blocking it, but plus the vitamin C, which was enhancing the absorption. I was like, you need to chill. Like you are taking all of the fun out of learning how to eat. Like your baby is not eating for 11 milligrams of iron a day. Your baby needs ample opportunity to learn how to eat and try these different foods like, And I tell you, you need to chill, like give your baby the food and then remember your job, which is not to make your baby eat, go sit on your hands while they're gagging, while they're getting dirty. It's all part of learning how to eat. Yes, we need to back off of like the adult stuff for babies and when parents are like, oh, I finish her off with the pouch, I'm like, turn the pouch around and tell me how many calories is in the pouch.

Katie Ferraro (37m 48s):

It's 30. Do you really think that the 30 calories like matters from a nutrition standpoint if you're forcing your baby to have these extra calories, it's just taking up room in their stomach where they're not gonna get the breast milk or formula that they need. Like you need to chill about the calories. That's not what matters early on and feeding.

Vanessa Rissetto (38m 3s):

Yeah. And also like you are just taking away this time that is so fast. Like you will blink your eyes and your kids will be kids, really kids and they're not gonna, then they just go get their own snacks, right? And they do like their own thing and they can open their own seltzer can and so you'll miss that time. So like, just try to enjoy it and don't, don't make a problem when there isn't a problem. And so when your kid doesn't eat exactly the way that you, you know, prepared the meal so perfectly and only wants to eat, you know the bread that's there, like let them eat the bread and move on. Like they'll get the memo eventually they'll stop doing that.

Katie Ferraro (38m 39s):

Thank you so much for coming on. Tell us where our audience can go to learn more about you and your resources and your work, especially your private practice, which you guys have just started, which is so exciting. Yeah,

Vanessa Rissetto (38m 49s):

So you can find me on Instagram, Vanessa Roseto RD or also kina health C-U-L-I-N-A-H-E-A-L-T-H. And

Katie Ferraro (38m 57s):

Okay. And if people are interested in like becoming a dietician this whole month, we're interviewing other dieticians on the podcast just to share what dieticians do in and around food and feeding. If they wanted to learn more about the dietetic internship process and what you do at NYU, where would they go for that?

Vanessa Rissetto (39m 11s):

Email me, vma209@nyu.edu And I will answer all.

Katie Ferraro (39m 17s):

All right, I'm gonna link to all your stuff on the show notes for this episode as well. If you guys go to blw podcast.com, we'll share all of her private practice resources, dietetic internship stuff. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your insight and the work you do as a dietician. You are amazing. You

Vanessa Rissetto (39m 31s):

Too. So fun talking to you and hopefully I'll get to California and visit soon.

Katie Ferraro (39m 36s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Vanessa Rissetto. I'll put all of the resources that she mentioned in the show notes for this episode, which you can find@blwpodcast.com/112. If you are ready to get your baby learning how to eat real food and you're looking for a one-stop solution where everything is all in one place, check out My program baby-led weaning with Katie Ferraro. I show you exactly what foods to feed on, which day in which order, and how to make them safe for your baby's age and stage. There is a discount code in the description where you are listening to or watching this podcast episode because I want to say thank you for taking the time to learn from me. Check out the program, baby led weaning with Katie Ferraro at baby led weaning.co/program,

Airwave Media (40m 19s):

and a special thank you to our partners at AirWave Media. If you like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from AirWave Media. We're online@blwpodcast.com. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you guys next time. Bye now.