Ditching Diet Culture: Fostering Your Baby’s Healthy Food Relationship with Vanessa Rissetto, MS, RD

Vanessa Rissetto (1s):

It is bad, right? Like when someone's telling you to like restrict calories and count calories and over obsessing about food and you know, it's a baby, but like, how are you around food? Maybe some days you want to eat the meal and some days you don't, maybe that's how the baby is to. Give them a break.

Katie Ferraro (15s):

Hey there I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom seven specializing in baby led weaning. Here on the baby led weaning made easy podcast, I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, leaving you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning. Hey guys, welcome back. Now, today's interview is a little bit different. I'm going to be talking with a very amazing guest about diet culture. And to be honest, I think that term diet culture is thrown around all the time. And I was like, do I even really know what diet culture is?

Katie Ferraro (55s):

I mean, one thing I do know is if you work in nutrition, no matter what you do or say, you will, at some point be accused of feeding into quote unquote diet culture. So I wanted to talk to someone who really does get this whole diet culture angle. So I invited registered dietitian, Vanessa Rissetto on the podcast to talk about ditching diet culture and how we can foster our baby's healthy relationship with food. Don't worry. She's going to define what it is. And Vanessa is a straight talker. I love her down to earth approach about food and nutrition. We're actually releasing this episode during March, which is national nutrition month. So for all of the interviews in March, I'm interviewing and spotlighting other registered dietitians and the work they do in and around food and feeding. So Vanessa Rissetto is like me, a registered dietitian.

Katie Ferraro (1m 37s):

We actually both work in both the private sector and in business, but also as dietetic educator. So she is the dietetic internship director at New York University. Vanessa also runs a very impressive private practice. A relatively new actually started during COVID it's called Colina Health. And she's located in the New York city, New Jersey areas, Vanessa and her business partner now employ nine dietitians. They do about 95% of their business with insurance, which is really impressive because that's very hard to do as someone who used to run a private practice, part of Vanessa's whole philosophy is about making nutrition available to people who need it most. So she'll be sharing a little bit about that. So Vanessa is also a mom of two kids, Rocco and Kate. She's going to be sharing a little bit about her philosophy in feeding, which I think is really going to surprise you.

Katie Ferraro (2m 22s):

This is not your run of the mill, like dietitian, mom, food police stuff. Vanessa is going to chat a bit about the pressures of feeding kids, quote unquote, healthy foods, and what pressuring and feeding actually does to babies down the road. She sees the aftermath of that in her private practice, but she's going to leave us with positive tips on things we can do, instead of just saying all the stuff we shouldn't do. So Vanessa is sharing ideas on what we can do to foster a better relationship with food for our babies than maybe many of us have as adults. So she's very blunt, very forthright about the things that like mess us up as adults when it comes to food and feeding and I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you guys enjoy this interview with registered dietician, Vanessa Rissetto, all about ditching diet culture, and fostering your baby's healthy relationship with food.

Katie Ferraro (3m 4s):

Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for joining me. This episode it's coming out during national nutrition month. And I'm curious, could you just share a little bit about your background and how you decided to become a dietitian?

Vanessa Rissetto (3m 15s):

Yeah. I actually went to college and studied history and then I went back to school. I got a master's in marketing, and then I went back to school and became a dietitian because I actually, after college went to see a dietitian who, Keri Glassman, who actually is a good friend of mine

Katie Ferraro (3m 30s):

Yeah, I know Keri

Vanessa Rissetto (3m 32s):

And I thought she was so smart. And she talked about nutrition and it was in this like digestible way. And it really helped me. And I was like, wow, it's kind of like medicine, which I'm interested in, but also it's about food, which I'm also interested in. So let me apply. And I got in and then I just went from there and here I am 11 and years later.

Katie Ferraro (3m 51s):

Can I ask you what it was about like history marketing, like what was not fulfilling to you that you like went to go do a third thing? Cause that's pretty major. Like, it's not like you just become a dietician overnight.

Vanessa Rissetto (4m 1s):

Yeah. So I did start college as a pre-med major, but I, you know, wanted to party. I was like, this is

Katie Ferraro (4m 8s):

And dietitians like to party. Let me just tell you.

Vanessa Rissetto (4m 11s):

Yeah. I want him to like hang out. And so then I decided, but I always was like an, A student. So like, how am I going to get A's with like minimal effort? How do I do this? And so I was like, oh, I'm going to be a history major because they just seem to like read and write papers. Except by the way, I had to read like a thousand pages a week and write papers all day long. So it wasn't easy. And then after that I was like, well, I don't know what I'm going to do. Maybe I'll go work. And I've worked this like marketing job. I worked for lifetime television and I thought, all right, I'll just go get a degree in marketing because that seems like what the path is. Cause I'm already here, but it just really wasn't for me. Cause I didn't see how I was helping people. I really wanted to like, that's my personality. Right? I like, I'm always helping, I'm a solutions oriented person.

Vanessa Rissetto (4m 52s):

And so, you know, just kind of twists and turns and here I am

Katie Ferraro (4m 56s):

Big lifetime fan, which has helped me a lot. I have to say so I know it's not for everyone, but okay. I know people outside of the nutrition field, they don't always realize what it is that a dietitian can do. And so just in chatting with you, I'm like, oh my gosh, you're so similar. Cause like you do a lot of different things at one time because there are so many cool things you can do. Like, could you just tell us a little bit about the jobs you've had in nutrition and then how would you currently describe your job?

Vanessa Rissetto (5m 19s):

Yeah so it's so funny. Cause you know, whenever anyone asks about nutrition, they think you're like, well, like I don't know, you take food orders. It's very weird.

Katie Ferraro (5m 27s):

They think you bring jello to the nurses at the hospital

Vanessa Rissetto (5m 31s):

Yeah. Like they do not know that you take biochemistry and organic chemistry and anatomy and physiology. Like when they hear all of that, they're like, oh, okay. So there's that? You know, we do a lot of math, but I've had so many jobs, right. I've worked in the hospital, I've worked in home infusion. So any kind of nutrition and in the vein, in the, in the stomach. Right. And then, and I've written, I've written out the TPN orders and the two feet orders and change the notes. So the patient would get like insurance coverage. I've worked in private practice, right? It's somebody else's private practice where I then saw like, well I can do this myself. So I'll just do it myself. I've actually also worked for large corporations. So I worked for a company that did like really extensive like health screens for the employees of fortune 500 companies.

Vanessa Rissetto (6m 16s):

And then would give them like this whole, you know, docket of like, this is what's going on with you. And this is how you fix it. And then at the end of that, there was health coaching for like, you know, however long a year, because what that did was it allowed the employer to say, this is what my employee looks like, so that they could then get lower insurance rates. Right? So it's this whole thing. So people don't really realize how like intricate and important nutrition can be, but it's like multifaceted. I've also been like in-house nutrition for really big companies. I've worked with celebrities. Like, I mean, I've done so many different, crazy things, written articles. So being a dietitian, you can do so much. You don't just have to be doing a private practice or being in a hospital.

Vanessa Rissetto (6m 59s):

Nutrition can translate so many other ways. I haven't personally done it, but you know, I've plenty of friends that work for food companies, even like the dietitian that works for Siggi's yogurt. For example, she created that job. She wrote to them and was like, this is why you need a dietitian

Katie Ferraro (7m 12s):

Dude and Siggy loves dieticians now, like because of her. It's cool. Exactly. I always tell students that like the job you want, you're never going to find it on a job board. Like you have to go out and create it, but anywhere where there's food and not currently a dietitian, there's a role for you. You just need to figure it out.

Vanessa Rissetto (7m 28s):

That's right. That's right.

Katie Ferraro (7m 28s):

So talk a little bit about your role. Cause you, I know you're, you are in a private practice now, which I think is crazy how fast you guys have grown that in New York city or in the New York area, which is like just insane and during COVID and then also, could you just tell us a little bit about what you do on the education side as the dietetic internship director too?

Vanessa Rissetto (7m 46s):

Yeah, so I had a private practice on my own and then a friend who was also had her own private practice on her own, we met one day for coffee and decided that we would merge those private practices. So we did that during COVID and grew really fast because, you know, after everyone was in there, COVID drinking and eating whole, they were like, I need to get out of this because it's not ending. So can you can talk to someone. So we started just with two dietitians and ourselves. So four of us seeing patients and then it just got busier and busier. And so now we have nine dieticians and an office manager and social media and you know, a biller who was amazing and chases all of our money and we can't be without him or his wife. They're wonderful. And so that's, that feels really good because we're helping people and we take insurance.

Vanessa Rissetto (8m 28s):

So it makes nutrition and wellness accessible, like to the masses. Right. You know, it's all fine and well, to charge a thousand dollars for a nutrition session, if that's what you want to do. And there are people that will pay for that. But what about the person who can't pay for that? Right? Like where does that leave them? And so I think it's our obligation, our duty to make sure that we are doing everything we can so that people can be healthy and can really do it in like an actionable way, like giving them tangible resources, things that they can do to excel. And then like about two and a half years ago, the former director of a dietetic internship was made a Dean. And so she called me a funny on vacation and she's like, Hey, I got promoted. And I was like, all right, like you could have just waited until I got back to like, tell me like don't and she's like, oh no, no, no, no, I need, I need help to get a new person.

Vanessa Rissetto (9m 16s):

I was like, oh, so I started like naming all these people. I thought that would be great. And she was like, no, no, no, that person is you. And I was like, ah, okay, great.

Katie Ferraro (9m 23s):

And this is at NYU, right?

Vanessa Rissetto (9m 24s):

This is at NYU. Yeah. And so I had a little time pre COVID to get a class in or two and like help them and teach them and have them pass their RD exams, all of them and become dietitians and then COVID hit and we had to pivot, but we did really well also with the help of that former dietetic internship director who became a Dean, she's very clever. And so we had a lot of things, you know, at the height of COVID we had like student actors and we had, you know, our own electronic medical record. And I would just basically precept students as if we were in the hospital. I would assign them patients, they would go through the EMR, they would have a student actor. I would review the notes with them and just like track hours that way.

Katie Ferraro (10m 4s):

Okay. So I was so excited to interview you today because we're talking about the topic of ditching diet culture and fostering your baby's healthy relationship with food. So before we dive into that, could you just share your thoughts on exactly what this quote unquote diet culture that we all hear about? Like what does that even refer to?

Vanessa Rissetto (10m 19s):

I know. This diet culture is like, so it's so

Katie Ferraro (10m 22s):

It's such a buzzword, but I'm like, what is it? Everyone talks about how bad it is. Like tell us why

Vanessa Rissetto (10m 26s):

It is bad. Right? Right. Like when someone's telling you to like restrict calories and count calories and you know, over obsessing about food and you know, do this diet or, you know, Adele did this diet, J-Lo did this diabetes. I did this side. It's like, okay, okay. Okay. I get it. But also like guys with a brain, like you don't have JLO money, so you're never gonna be able to execute JLO's diet. Right. Like, yeah. She has a team of people like slapping the food out of her hand and, you know, massaging her face and like making her meals and working her out and watching her kids. So like, don't try to do what she's doing. That's number one, number two, diet culture, of course, like nobody with a brain in their head subscribes to diet culture. Why would I want to turn you into somebody who was so over obsessed and hyper-focused on food?

Vanessa Rissetto (11m 8s):

However, there are all these like gray areas in between where like everyone's coming at you. So like, if you are prescriptive to your patient, then people are saying that like you're feeding into diet culture, but am I really so like for example, I have a patient who is pre-diabetic and she was intermittent fasting and doing this and doing that. And, but also like intuitively eating, guess what? That doesn't work for her because she's intermittent fasting. She liver's doing gluconeogenesis. We're pumping out too much sugar. Like there's too much happening here. So I had to get prescriptive and I had to say, you need to be eating this much starch at breakfast, this much starch at lunch, this much starch at dinner, this, this, this, and this, because we're trying to control numbers. So I think it's like a little bit dangerous when we're like, okay, diet culture.

Vanessa Rissetto (11m 51s):

And then we lump everything in there because for the regular person, they don't understand that. So they're just like, oh, well this dietitian says intuitively eat. That means I can eat whatever I want. It's not clear. I think we have to really be deliberate about the language. Like, yeah, I don't subscribe to any diet. I think a diet is stupid. It's not sustainable. Let's move on from that.

Katie Ferraro (12m 8s):

Yeah. But you're talking to like perfect example, like medical nutrition therapy, that person has a diagnosis. We know from a science standpoint, the way carbohydrates and then long periods without carbohydrates for that person who going to react like no offense, a celebrity nutritionist who like got her degree from a diploma mill online is not going to be able to do this. You know, you're just showing like why we do need registered dietitians involved in diet is just what you eat like

Vanessa Rissetto (12m 30s):

That's right. That's right. But what you said is very important, right? We know science and for some reason, everybody's like, nobody wants to deal with science. We're all moving away from science. We're like guys science works.

Katie Ferraro (12m 41s):

That is another episode about why science works. Can you just share the story that you were just telling me about like the patient that you just had, who was talking about her own daughter? And like, when she started to gain weight, it was like, really eye-opening

Vanessa Rissetto (12m 52s):

I have this patients. I love them. They're wonderful. They've done really well with me. And they noted to me that, you know, the wife said yesterday, this is the age that I started to blow up. And I'm like, okay, but your daughter is literally only three years old. And she said, but she's always asking for food. And I was like, okay, well, first of all, it's COVID and you guys don't leave your house. Like you're very strict about quarantine

Katie Ferraro (13m 15s):

And having met three-year-olds they all just asked for food

Vanessa Rissetto (13m 18s):

For exactly. That's the other thing. That's the other thing it's like, you're really nervous cause your kid is always asking for food, but like that's all the three-year-old knows that they can control, right? Like they're like, I can control what I'm eating sort of. So I'm going to ask for food. If it's bothering you, like you can offer your kid water, you can offer your kid vegetables and fruits so that you're not offering them like overly processed things. And also you can also just shift, you know, what's happening. So like, if you notice that you're, you're not paying into your kid, your kid is, you know, having a free time and you've already fed her and she's asking for food. Then you can say, Hey, let's go outside and play. Let's go for a walk. Right? What is it for you to go for a walk around the block? And then if your kid comes home and is still asking for food? Feed your kid because your kid is probably hungry.

Vanessa Rissetto (14m 1s):

It is growing. So your kid is not going to be overweight or have issues because you're feeding your kid nutritious food. Who cares if your kid eats six oranges today? I mean, who cares.

Katie Ferraro (14m 13s):

Yeah and I think parents feel like pressured, especially the snacks. I know, especially for babies, like other dieticians love to say, oh, babies need snacks. Babies do not need snacks. Babies don't even know how to eat yet. The milk that they're having in between the meals that you're feeding them is their snack. And it's okay to say no to snacks. Like you can have your own food rules. Even if they go against like what everyone else at the park is doing. Like my kids will say, well, these, they have snacks. We just don't eat snacks. Why? Because we're on a pretty tight schedule. And I need you guys to eat at dinner. That's our food rules. That's what works for us. And parents are like, you can do that. Like, yes, you can have your own food rules. My friend, Julia Nordgren out here in California. She's a chef and a pediatrician, which is like a doctor who knows about food is unheard of. But she, she has this like beautiful analogy of writing your family's food story.

Katie Ferraro (14m 56s):

Like essentially your child and your baby is a blank slate. Like they don't already have all the messed up stuff about food that we do. And we don't have to perpetuate that in our babies. And I think that's what our listeners are interested in. Like our audience is made up mostly moms and babies of babies transitioning to solid foods and it can be so stressful. And I know moms telling me all the time that they're nervous because maybe they themselves don't have the best relationship with food. So what advice do you have for moms who are venturing into this next phase of their baby's life with food, but they have a lot of the same anxieties that you're seeing in your practice. Like what do you tell these parents?

Vanessa Rissetto (15m 28s):

Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I always tell people like you or your kids best pediatrician, like, you know, your kid best. That does not mean that, you know, you don't take information from the doctor and you know, do with it what you will. But if, like you said, if you notice that your kid's snacks too much and then doesn't eat the dinner that you provide and then is up at nine, o'clock asking for food, then something has to change. That doesn't mean that you're going to give your kid some disordered eating pattern, right? Like what is really important to you also at the same time, if their kid is only eating like this much food, right? Like, you know, a little like a tablespoon, how much does a three-year-old need? They need like three tablespoons of food at a clip. So you don't really need to be dousing so much on the plate.

Vanessa Rissetto (16m 10s):

Like it makes total sense that if your kid is only needing really three tablespoons of food at a time, but they would be hungrier more often. Right? Like those are the things.

Katie Ferraro (16m 20s):

Or even for babies, they don't, they don't even know hunger yet. We got to let them learn how to eat so they can eventually recognize what hunger is. But it's the dietitian parents are the hardest because they're like so obsessed with like the quantity and the volume of food, like to that does not matter. That's not why we're here.

Vanessa Rissetto (16m 34s):

Right. Just feed the kid. Right. So, you know, feed your kid at breakfast. What can that breakfast have? Like, I always made sure that the breakfast always has to have like a fruit in it. Just because like, you want them to have some fiber. Right. Cause a lot of them, things are just, they're not going to eat cucumbers and carrots and any of those things, right. It's hard to

Katie Ferraro (16m 51s):

Like, that's so tongue in cheek that you're saying that, but parents are like, dude, I can't feed my baby fruit. They're going to get a sweet tooth. They're going to have an affinity for fruit. They're never gonna eat vegetables. I'm like, dude, you shouldn't have all fruit at every single meal. But like you just point out like fruit has fiber. Like there are things besides the flavor compounds going on here too.

Vanessa Rissetto (17m 7s):

And also I wouldn't just give my kids fruit by meal or maybe I would make like a high protein pancake for the, but you know, and like small amounts and rip it up, put it in front of them and let them feed themselves. Right. Give them some autonomy, like giving them, you know, sweet potatoes. I, you know, when my kids were little like babies, they ate everything. Right. So we would like puree a sweet potato puree, the brussel sprouts, like put them in the cubes, put like a meat and a, and a vegetable and then the side of fruit and then they would eat it. And then like, you know, they turned like 18 months and they were like, yeah, no, we're not doing that anymore. We want pouches and yogurt and air. And so that's what I fed them. I just didn't care. I was like, this is America. We're not in a food compromised situation.

Vanessa Rissetto (17m 49s):

Everyone's going to grow. And they, and so I think that the more that you remove the language, you don't don't feed into it. My mother would be like, oh my God, Rocco, my son is Rocco seven. Rocco didn't eat anything today, but yogurt and peanut butter. And now he's going to go to bed and he won't eat this food that we put in front of him. I'm like, Rocko's two, who cares, drink water.

Katie Ferraro (18m 11s):

I feel like you have like the hindsight of a mom who has seven and nine-year-olds cause you're like, so chill. Now I want to ask you, because I know your business partner just had her first baby. And so just curious if you were like starting over, if that was you and you were having the baby right now, knowing what, you know, would you feed your baby differently or would you do everything the same?

Vanessa Rissetto (18m 29s):

Everything the same. I have to tell you. Even when I had my daughter, I had Kate, I remember everybody always saying like, my baby has reflux. My baby has reflux.

Katie Ferraro (18m 39s):

We're doing a separate episode on my baby has reflux.

Vanessa Rissetto (18m 41s):

Yeah, right. And like, I was the GI dietitian at Mount Sinai. So I was like, well maybe cause my baby's stomach is the size of a marble. So I never felt some kind of way when my kid was, you know, after they ate and they would be a little bit cranky, I would make sure I burped them really well. And so then after like a month or six weeks, all of that stuff sort of subsided because they, they grew into it. I knew that intellectually. So I kept going with that. I definitely had like routines and I definitely like noted things. Like I would nurse my baby and I would, you know, I remember one time, I just, like, I was eating a bunch of fruit at my aunt's house and I was nursing my daughter. And then, you know, it was like liquid poop. And I was like, right. Cause it was all the, all the fruit. Right. So I, I knew that, right?

Vanessa Rissetto (19m 22s):

No big deal. She was fine. She wasn't, she didn't have any discomfort. So I think because of everything that I knew, I think my kids have like pretty good eating habits, but also at the same time, like they're seven and nine and I have to be like, there needs to be a vegetable on your plate, please, please, please. So I cut the vegetables. I get like whole carrots, cucumbers, red bell peppers, cucumbers. I put them in a container in the fridge. And so they have to go into the refrigerator and they have to get that and put that on their lunch plate and their dinner plate. They are responsible for that. They have to have one fruit every day. That's not me like controlling per se. It's me being like, well you have to develop this habit because I have a friend who is a dietitian. Her husband's a doctor. I'm not even lying. He only eats chicken nuggets and French fries.

Vanessa Rissetto (20m 3s):

His parents never made him

Katie Ferraro (20m 3s):

No, he has a palette of a five-year-old. I love that. I know it I'll check that. Yeah. And they're not like proud of it, but they also don't want to replicate that in their kids. And we see that with a lot of moms like, okay, my husband or partner is super picky. I myself have like some messed up stuff about food as most women do. And I don't want to go replicate this for my kids. So your approach is kind of like stop, stressing so much about it. But I feel like that's easier said than done. What can we do to like when you feel that anxiety bubbling up and you're like, because babies can sense when you are stressed. If you're stressed about them gagging, they feel that like, how can we tamp that down? And I don't even know, like I'm not in nutrition therapy, but like what can parents do when they feel that anxiety a brown food coming up, but they don't want to like perpetuate those feelings of stress to their baby?

Vanessa Rissetto (20m 46s):

Yeah. So I always think like education is key. So I loved Ruth Yaron has this book it's called super baby food. I like gifted to anybody who's pregnant. It's awesome. Because she like breaks down the age of the child and what are the new foods like that can be introduced. So it's really cool. Right? Like you can just like open this page up and be like, oh, she says at seven months, the baby can have, I don't know, mangoes. Okay, great. I'm going to, and oh, by the way, my kid, my kid is teething. So I'm going to do some like frozen mangoes. I'm going to try, like maybe I'll make my kid, you know, a little smoothie or maybe I'll just going to like cut up the mango and put it on the side with their breakfast. And like, let's see if they like that.

Vanessa Rissetto (21m 27s):

So like every month you can build and you don't have to try every new thing that she puts on there, but at least it's like a guide. So I think if people are guided properly, they're like, okay, I don't feel so stressed out about this right here in this book. It says, I can introduce this to my kid. If your kid likes it, they like it. If they don't like it, move on to the next thing.

Katie Ferraro (21m 46s):

Move on. Exactly. And I think we, I have teach a whole approach to baby led weaning called the a hundred first foods program, which is basically to feed your baby a hundred different foods before they turn one. And people are like, what's the magic deal with a a hundred. It's not magic, but most babies have 10 or 15 foods under the belt. By the time they turn one and it, you said it, then they become picky eaters. You lose those 10 or 15 foods. You're screwed. That's a really hard child to feed. But if a baby's been exposed to a hundred different foods that they like and accept, and you lose 10 or 15, no big deal. You still have this whole variety of food you can feed. And if they don't love brussel sprouts, they at least like you've got a few other green things in your arsenal that your, your kid will eat. It's just the variety. And the diet diversity that we know the research is showing like diet diversity is everything.

Katie Ferraro (22m 26s):

And most kids only have like the dino chicken nuggets, and the quesadillas and the white and the brown foods. And there are so many more foods. Exactly. Babies can eat so many more foods and we give them credit rights. And I agree with you. Education is key. Just like, knowing that

Vanessa Rissetto (22m 39s):

Right. Also, like let's not forget Brussels sprouts don't taste good.

Katie Ferraro (22m 41s):

Oh, it wasn't a lot of oil and salt. They're like doable. I feel like

Vanessa Rissetto (22m 46s):

Yes, totally. And my husband like does this like balsamic glaze and like maple syrup and like, that's delicious. But like when you're 15 months old and someone's feeding you a pureed brussel sprouts, it's not really delicious

Katie Ferraro (22m 59s):

And not safe either.

Vanessa Rissetto (22m 60s):

Like it's like, guys on. So that's the thing. It's like, don't also feel this pressure to give the kid, like my kid has to have broccoli and the kid has to have kale. It's like, relax. Yeah. Just,

Katie Ferraro (23m 12s):

And I think if you go to the other end, like kind of feeding into that, like you talked about where parents are getting all this pressure from is like, when parents talk about kale, there's this great article. It's like, so tongue in cheek about baby led weaning. It's like, you are kale. Eating baby does not impress me. It's like one of my favorite headlines ever. And it's like parents like, oh my baby's eating kale. And like, no, they're not. They're sucking green colored apple sauce out of a pouch. That is like less than 1% kale. You just paid $4 for that. Whereas like from a developmental standpoint, babies don't need to suck out of pouches. And I can show you a safe way to like, have them eat kale among other things. But like don't kid yourself into thinking, this is some like gourmet amazing food. It's just applesauce. That's green that you paid way too much money for because we're getting pressure of course, from the baby food industry as well with this perception of like your baby's eating kale.

Katie Ferraro (23m 55s):

Like, no they're not.

Vanessa Rissetto (23m 56s):

Right. Right. I know. And you know, I always feel like the mom is at the Parker, like in competition, like, that'll be like, what is little Jimmy? It's why

Katie Ferraro (24m 3s):

Like, don't even have friends at the bar. The best thing about COVID is not having to go to the park and have these conversations about like what your baby is eating with other people. And granted, this is what I do full time. But like, you know, as a dietician, when people are like, oh, I bet you eat this way. Cause you're a dietician. And I love to hear you be like, no, some days we just have peanut butter and yogurt. And like, you know what? I not really aware of any children who have ever died because for a few days they just ate peanut butter and yogurt.

Vanessa Rissetto (24m 25s):

It's funny because people do comment. Like one time we were at the park and I just like bought a bunch of cupcakes and I was like, look, the mini ones. And I was like, okay, everybody cupcakes. And they are like, I can't believe you brought these

Katie Ferraro (24m 36s):

These gluten-free and let people have, can you give me a recipe for like a sugar-free gluten-free smash cake? No. If your family eats cake, like I'm pro cake, well, babies shouldn't have added sugar or the eating cake every day. It's a, sometimes food, like on their freaking birthday in our family, we eat cake and people, I cannot believe you are endorsing cake for children. Like, why can't believe you just took that entirely out of context. But like, again, you're not every, I'm not everyone's cup of tea. And you know, if you want to make a sugar-free smash cake for your kid, that's fine. But that's not the type of cake I eat in my family. So

Vanessa Rissetto (25m 3s):

Yeah. It's funny that you say, I mean, we're clearly soulmates because somebody was like, oh, what do you think about black bean brownies? I'm like, disgusting. I wouldn't have to make that a waste of money that

Katie Ferraro (25m 12s):

High friggin and that's Jerry Seinfeld's wife who started that, like this notion of like, oh, I'm just going to put vegetables in, hide them in desserts. And it's like, oh good. So now we're teaching our kids that there's something inherently distasteful or bad about vegetables, that they should be all hidden in brownies. Same

Vanessa Rissetto (25m 26s):

You can't hide from them. You have to show them that they are also in control. You have to give them autonomy, like right. Ellyn Satter everyone reads Ellyn Satter like feeding your family, right? The division of responsibility you have to like offer the child the safe food. And then the new foods that you want them to try. So if you know, your kid is always going to eat chicken, then you always offer the chicken and then the vegetables next to it. And then we don't talk about it. We just, eventually they will eat them. My son used to terrorize us about food. Horrible. He was great. Then he was horrible. And my mom and my husband would be freaking out and I would just be like, I literally don't care.

Katie Ferraro (26m 2s):

Ellyn Satter the division responsibilities. Like the, it takes all the pressure off you. It's not your job to make the baby eat you guys. She says, you're in charge of what the baby eats and where they eat and when they eat, you just do your job, put your head down, stay in your lane. I love her. And over here, the baby decides how much or even whether they eat. And I think for parents who have anxiety about food, like just remember that posted on your fridge. If you have to, it's not your job to make your baby eat. And you're going to mess that kid up. If you make them eat everything, like, is that true? Like, do you see the aftermath of that? Like in your practice, like parents who were forced to eat, like they turn in, messed up relationships with food.

Vanessa Rissetto (26m 39s):

I said that last night, I was like, when you are talking to your kids about what they should and shouldn't eat when you are like making feel put upon, they always end up in my office. But I will tell you in my own house with my son who was refusing to eat things and my husband like be going into like a blind rage, I'd be like, honestly, why are you arguing with the five-year-old like, you need go in your corner. Like, I know what I'm doing here. So go, go do whatever it is that you do. But now my son is fine. He eats the Turkey burgers. He eats the rice and beans. He eats the chicken, he eats his vegetable every day. He eats a fruit every day. He's fine.

Katie Ferraro (27m 13s):

But he doesn't like magically do that. You've got to give yourself credit. Like you are the one at least ensuring that there's some colorful foods in the refrigerator. Like, it's not like you don't magically eat red bell peppers,

Vanessa Rissetto (27m 22s):

I had to keep going, keep going. But the thing was is that I never made a big deal. Also, by the way, guys. My kids are free to get a dessert every day. Right? Remember Ellyn Satter says like, sometimes the snack or the food can be like chips and things that are like not considered healthy. Doesn't matter. So like on Halloween, I let my kids eat all the candy they want. And then the next day they're allowed to take one piece, but they have to be like in control. If they're not able to be in control, then we don't handle this in the house. I'm telling you the kids at the end, like, I don't even care. They like forgot that it was

Katie Ferraro (27m 52s):

They don't even notice it when you take it all away

Vanessa Rissetto (27m 54s):

They don't even notice it. They don't care. You throw it out. You do all these things. It's fine. So that is really the thing is like, let them explore. Let them experiment. Don't be afraid. Nothing bad is going to happen if your kid eats to Twix. I swear.

Katie Ferraro (28m 8s):

No, I know. And when honestly, cause you and I both worked in media for a long time too. But like when a publication is like, can you write an article about sugar-free healthy Halloween? And I was like, no, because Halloween is not about like, sugar-free, I'm not going to give out raisins and apples on Halloween. I mean, COVID, we can't give out anything, but still like, no, I'm not going to, because in my particular food culture, that's not how we celebrate. Like I don't want to make people feel bad for celebrating with sugar if that's what they do.

Vanessa Rissetto (28m 33s):

Right. Exactly. You know, the only thing that I don't let my kids have, it's like juice saying there is never any juice in my house. I agree. But when they go to birthday parties, they'll be like, so Katherine didn't eat any pizza or cake, but she's had like six juice boxes. I'm like, it's totally fine. We don't get it at home. So like let her do hers.

Katie Ferraro (28m 49s):

The same about juice. And I think a lot of parents are, especially first time parents are really surprised like, whoa, what do you mean no juice? I thought kids need to drink juice. It's like, and I mean, you know, in our formal nutrition training, you go do a nutrition, 10 book. It's always got a picture and there's juice there. It's like, where did this notion come from that kids need juice? Like they don't, we know not only promotes dental caries and obesity, but like just like adults eat your fruit, don't drink it. Like, and I feel confident being like dude no juice, but, and even if you look at the size of the juice boxes, they're bigger than what the upper end for like recommended daily intake for juices. Even when you're like past two, it's like, what are you gonna do? Take the juice box away from the kid when it's three quarters of the way full, like you try to take a juice box away from a kid. It's just easier not to have it. We sometimes have it at parties.

Katie Ferraro (29m 30s):

Like it's a sometimes food.

Vanessa Rissetto (29m 31s):

Exactly. It's sometimes food and I'm just like, you have to let the kid have water. I'm like, no way. If I let my kids, if there was juice in the house, they would drink 18 containers of it a day. There is no benefit here, but what's also interesting is the other day my friend, the kid was sick and an upset stomach and they gave the kid apple juice and she was like, oh my God, help me. I was like, yeah, the more sugar, the more cramping, the more

Katie Ferraro (29m 55s):

Like massive diarrhea, diarrhea.

Vanessa Rissetto (29m 56s):

And she was like, I was like, stop with the juice. Do you have a electrolyte water? She's like, Vanessa, I don't have electrolyte water

Katie Ferraro (30m 2s):

Seven up. What did you drink when I was a kid? You had ginger ale and we're all fine, you know?

Vanessa Rissetto (30m 6s):

And just put some Himalayan sea salt in some water and call it a day. She was like, okay.

Katie Ferraro (30m 11s):

And your own oral rehydration solution. I love it. Okay. So can we talk a little bit about language? Because I know like when I got into infant feeding, it's all like do's and don'ts like never call your child a picky eater because you are labeling your child. Like, and I don't know if you agree with this or not, but like for parents who are just learning about feeding, like, and as someone who works, you work with people kind of on the other end, when the parents have like, come to you, like, okay, listen, I need help. What words can we avoid when we're talking about food with our kid? Or just a good idea to like stay away from, and then I don't know if you feel more comfortable saying like, well, these are the words I use, but if there's words, you're like, no, don't say those words around your kid. Cause it's kinda gonna mess them up. Do you have any tips around language?

Vanessa Rissetto (30m 51s):

Yeah. So first of all, I never comment on anyone's appearance. Never. So I'll never say like, oh, you look great today. Or like, I just don't do that on purpose because I just don't want anyone to feel that their self-worth is predicated upon what they look like, what their clothes look like, what their hair looks like. So that is something that I don't ever say. But what's so funny is that the other day we were watching the Grammys and I was like, what is she wearing? And my daughter's like, that's not very nice to talk about the way someone looks so funny. And I, you know, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. You know, even, even if it's the Grammy's right. So it's, it's carried over. Thank you, Katherine. But so I don't do that. Never obviously, you know, like I don't want to be fat. Like I never talked about my weight or, you know, we don't, we don't get on the scale.

Vanessa Rissetto (31m 32s):

The only reason we got on the scale the other day was because my daughter wanted to see if she can come out of her car seat. And we were like, okay

Katie Ferraro (31m 37s):

Oh thats a good one

Vanessa Rissetto (31m 38s):

But you have to be so we, okay. Yes. You have to be 70 pounds. So yes, you can come out of your car seat. She was like, yes. So happy. But otherwise we don't weigh them. And then when we talk about food, like, I'll say you have to have protein in your meal. Right? So if, if my daughter was like, I just want spaghetti and butter, I'm like, that's fine, but you need to have a protein. And the reason you have to have a protein is because protein helps for us to feel full

Katie Ferraro (32m 1s):

And you don't come back in five minutes asking me for a snack.

Vanessa Rissetto (32m 3s):

That's it. I don't care what you eat. I don't want to be concerned with figuring out what to feed you in two minutes. So I always talk about food in that sense. How can we keep ourselves properly fueled? So we always need to have fat protein and carbohydrate protein keeps us full. So they'd get that now. So my son will be like, is this protein? Is this chicken, protein? Okay. That's what I'm eating. Like then they know they do start

Katie Ferraro (32m 24s):

Asking, like my oldest is six and she can read now. So she's like, we're sitting there and she sees calories. Like, what's the calorie. I'm like, oh my God, this is a loaded question. And then I kind of like brush it off for a while. And the other day she's like, how come calories? Don't matter to kids, but adults care about them. I like to, where did you learn that adults care about calories? Like, it's not that way. It's like, you know, you use the car and the gas analogy, you got a fuel, the body and it gives you energy. But like, I literally tried to shelter them from all this stuff. And she's still like asking about calories. Like how do you answer that? Because I don't want to talk about calories to a six year old.

Vanessa Rissetto (32m 53s):

Okay. So my seven year old asked me what a calorie was. And I was like, it's the amount of heat energy. It takes

Katie Ferraro (32m 60s):

Liter of water. One degree Celsius. What? A nutrition nerd. Yeah.

Vanessa Rissetto (33m 5s):

So I told him that and he was like, oh, so I said calories. I did explain to him, not all calories are created equal. If I had a hundred calories of an apple with peanut butter versus a hundred calories of a cookie. Right. Or just like, let me tell you how it would work. He got it. He understood. And he was like, okay. So I kind of sometimes get a little scientific with them. And I know that like the regular person is not able to do that. But if you tell them, like, when you have protein, fat and carbs together, that's going to help keep you full and stabilize your blood sugar.

Katie Ferraro (33m 34s):

That's science, that's not diet culture. Like that's science

Vanessa Rissetto (33m 36s):

Thats science, just science. And guess what? Kids like science, they love, I like it.

Katie Ferraro (33m 40s):

They like the application of science. I totally feel you.

Vanessa Rissetto (33m 43s):

So they want to know how things work. So yeah. Just tell them that

Katie Ferraro (33m 46s):

But at the right age, like I have parents who are like, especially dietitian parents, like, oh, but she only had 30 calories. I have one mom calculating like the milligrams of iron. She thought her baby was absorbing from food versus what her breast milk has, you know, minus the calcium, which was blocking it. But plus the vitamin C, which was enhancing these doors, I was like, you need to chill. Like you are taking all of the fun out of learning how to eat. Like your baby is not eating for 11 milligrams of iron a day. Your baby needs ample opportunity to learn how to eat and try these different foods. Like, and I tell you, you need to chill, like give your baby the food and then remember your job, which is not to make your baby eco sit on your hands while they're gagging, while they're getting dirty. It's all part of learning how to eat. We need to back off of like the adult stuff for babies. And when parents are like, oh, I have finished her off with a pouch.

Katie Ferraro (34m 29s):

I'm like, turn the pouch around and tell me how many calories is in the pouch. It's 30. Do you really think that the 30 calories like matters from a nutrition standpoint? If you're forcing your baby to have these extra calories, it's just taking up room in their stomach. When they're not going to get the breast milk or formula, they need, like, you need to chill about the calories. That's not what matters early on in feeding.

Vanessa Rissetto (34m 51s):

Yeah and also like, you're just taking away this time. That is so fast. Like you will blink your eyes and your kids will be kids, really kids, and they're not gonna, then they just go get their own snacks. Right. And they do like their own thing and they can open their own seltzer can. And so you'll miss that time. So like just try to enjoy it. And don't, don't make a problem when there isn't a problem. And so when your kid doesn't eat exactly the way that you prepared the meals so perfectly and only wants to eat, you know, the bread, that's there to like, let them eat the bread and move on. Like, they'll get the memo eventually they'll stop doing that.

Katie Ferraro (35m 24s):

Thank you so much for coming on. Tell us where our audience can go to learn more about you and your resources and your work, especially your private practice, which you guys have just started, which is so exciting. Yeah.

Vanessa Rissetto (35m 35s):

So you can find me on Instagram, Vanessa Rissetto RD, or also culina health. C U L I N A H E A L T H.

Katie Ferraro (35m 43s):

And okay. If people are interested in like becoming a dietitian this whole month, we're interviewing other dietitians on the podcast just to share what dietitians do in and around food and feeding. If they want it to learn more about the dietetic internship process and what you do at NYU, where would they go for that?

Vanessa Rissetto (35m 58s):

Email me.V M a209@nyu.edu. And I will answer.

Katie Ferraro (35m 59s):

All right. I'm going to link to all your stuff on the show notes for this episode as well. If you guys go to BLW podcast.com, we'll share all of her private practice resources, dietetic internship stuff. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your insight and the work you do as a dietitian. You are amazing.

Vanessa Rissetto (36m 17s):

You too. So fun talking to you and hopefully I'll get to California and visit soon.

Katie Ferraro (36m 22s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Vanessa Rissetto. She cracks me up. I just love how forthright and real she is. It's kind of like, I feel like she's my friend, she's my exact age, but she's like my friend that has older kids than you. And she's like reminding you, you're going to be okay. Your kid is going to be okay. And you guys, they are, you guys are doing an amazing job transition to your baby through to solid foods. And I think it really helps to have perspective about what your baby can and wants to do on their own because sometimes we forget, we just get so spun up and stressed out about where we are right now in our own feeding journey and our child development journey. So the whole goal baby led weaning. If you think about it, it's to raise independent eaters, right? We have to let babies be independent and guess what? They then grow up to be independent kids.

Katie Ferraro (37m 3s):

So I loved Vanessa's insight. And if you guys recall, there was a part where she was talking about Ellyn Satter's division of responsibility in feeding theory, Ellyn Satter's another registered dietitian has done very important work in the world of feeding. And if you look at the theory of Ellyn Satter's, it's like if you're feeling stressed out about how much, or even whether your baby is eating right now, just take a deep breath, take a step back and remind yourself. That's not my job. And your job guys is to be in charge of what your baby eats and where your baby eats and when your baby eats, but let's let babies do their jobs, which is to determine how much or even whether they eat. So thank you Vanessa, for reminding us of all of this and like keeping it in perspective. I'm going to link to all of the resources that Vanessa mentioned in this podcast episode, as well as links to her nutrition practice culina health.

Katie Ferraro (37m 48s):

It'll be in the show notes for this episode, which you can find@blwpodcast.com forward slash one, one, two. Bye now.