Baby Brain Health: How Does the Weaning Diet Impact Baby's Brain with Tommy Wood, BM, BCh, PhD

Babyledweaning (0s):

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Puffworks (58s):

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Tommy Wood (2m 1s):

Particularly during the last trimester of pregnancy. But then also for the first two or three years after birth. DHA is actively accumulated in the brain. It is one of the most common fats in the brain. It's actually so tightly regulated that the mother's DHA stores are sacrificed in order to make sure that the baby gets enough.

Katie Ferraro (2m 21s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, Registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby led weaning here on the Baby Led Weaning Made Easy podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, leaving you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning Do. you ever look at your baby and think, I wonder what is going on inside of your brain right now? Well, my guest today knows a LOT about baby brains and in particular how the maternal diet and infant Weaning diet affect your baby's brain development. So his name is Dr Tommy Wood.

Katie Ferraro (3m 2s):

Dr Wood is a neonatal neuroscientist who specializes in preterm infants and studies their brain development So. in this interview we're gonna chat about some of the different nutrients that you've probably heard of. Things like iron and vitamin D and EPA and DHA plus the role that they play in your baby still developing brain. One thing that I learned from this interview is that humans are the only primates who have FAT infants. He's teaching about the role that FAT and iron has in brain development as it pertains to the white matter in our brains. And I just think Dr. Wood has such a wonderful way of synthesizing his very meticulous and specific research, but putting it into actionable steps that you can use as you are selecting the foods that you choose or choose not to include in your baby's Weaning diet.

Katie Ferraro (3m 42s):

So with no further ado, here is Dr. Tommy Wood talking about Baby Brain Health and how the weaning diet impacts your baby's brain.

Tommy Wood (3m 52s):

Hi, great to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Katie Ferraro (3m 55s):

Okay. I heard you first on the Whoop podcast. I was really interested in your background as a researcher in pediatric neurology. How did you end up specializing in that area and then what sort of research and work are you currently doing?

Tommy Wood (4m 9s):

Technically I'm a neonatal neuroscientist. I run a lab here at the University of Washington that focuses on treating the injured newborn brain. So Babies, born preterm or Babies who get to full term and something happens to some kind of asphyxia event. You know, something goes wrong with, there's a decrease in oxygen and and blood to the brain. And then we, we treat those Babies primarily by cooling them down. But there are a bunch of other things hopefully in the pipeline to try and improve outcomes for those Babies. And then part of that is looking at animal models, looking at clinical data from clinical trials. I do a lot of all of that, but how I ended up there is almost, well, it's very random in fact.

Tommy Wood (4m 49s):

So I, I did most of my training in the UK as you may be able to tell. I have an undergraduate degree in biochemistry. Then I went to medical school and I worked as a doctor for a couple of years in London, but I focused entirely on adults. I did orthopedics, I did elderly care, I did a lot of internal medicine, I did some toxicology. But throughout that time, or actually when I was an undergrad, I, I spent some time in a lab that focused on the kind of stuff that I do now, just sort of helping out in the summers, learning to do some research. When I then became a doctor several years later, the pi, the professor who runs that lab, she said, well, do you wanna come and do a PhD with me? She'd moved back to Norway, she's from Norway. And so I did that because I didn't really know what I wanted to specialize in as a doctor.

Tommy Wood (5m 32s):

So I went and did a, a PhD in neonatal and neuroscience and physiology and then, you know, fast forward a decade almost and that's what I do now. I I run a, a neuroscience lab. I, I'm in the division of neonatology at the University of Washington. We have very close ties to a whole bunch of clinical colleagues looking after, looking after Babies and trying to maximally improve their neurodevelopment. And you know, alongside that and the reason why I was on the whoop podcast is because I do a lot of work with athletes. I'm really interested in nutrition and how that affects brain health and function across the entire lifespan. But of course, you know, that starts right at the beginning and then can affect you throughout your entire life.

Katie Ferraro (6m 10s):

Which is a great segue into my first question cuz most of our audience listening already has a baby. But take us back to pregnancy. What factors during pregnancy are shaping the future baby's brain?

Tommy Wood (6m 22s):

The more we look at this, and by we, I mean as a research community, the, the more that people look at this, the more you realize how much starts, you know, right at the beginning may, maybe even preconception, you know, both maternal and paternal health and exposures are affecting, you know, the fetus and then the baby. And some of the really interesting things that, that you, you might look at are related to just like total caloric intake or or overall health. So we know that things like gestational diabetes or diabetes prior to pregnancy, they then affect the likelihood of your baby being born preterm. And that sort of creates this cascade of what might happen later on.

Tommy Wood (7m 3s):

So we know overall health beforehand can make a big difference. There are some really interesting studies or they're interesting to me because when we think about prematurity as an example, one thing that we're increasingly seeing is that if a baby is born preterm and there are other risk factors for being born, preterm, like one risk factor seems to be a low omega-3 status, which I think, we'll we'll talk about some more. If you're born preterm, then throughout your entire life you have an increased risk of most of the diseases of aging, high risk, of cardiovascular disease, higher risk of diabetes, higher risk of dying younger, the more preterm you're born. So there's this like accelerated aging thing and, and one that this seems to happen in adults who are born preterm.

Tommy Wood (7m 47s):

And one of the earliest ways that they looked at that was in the Dutch famine study, there was a period of time when due to the second world war, but pregnant mothers couldn't get as many calories in and when they looked at their offspring when they were adults, they had older looking brains than, you know, similar people. So this is starting in utero, you know, these kind of nutritional stresses can then affect the brain throughout the lifespan. And then this seems to be, it doesn't mean it's all doom and gloom, it just means that there are points that we can intervene and make a difference pretty much at every stage.

Katie Ferraro (8m 19s):

So my husband is a 28 weeker, but from 1975, so like his dad was in the military, so if it weren't for military care he would not have been a viable baby life. And he, to this day, so I'm a dietitian and he's always, people are always like, how come your husband doesn't eat great? He's like, I was born prematurely, I have chronic undernutrition, my body desires all of these extra calories. He's like, I am genetically predetermined to overeat. I'm like, Hey, you do whatever you wanna do. But I haven't heard this term like preterm aging. We actually ourselves, we had a set of quadruplets and you're probably aware average is stationed for a quadruplet pregnancy is 28 weeks with 50% chance of major handicaps. So when I was going through that pregnancy, it was very scary. We made the decision not to reduce, although we were advised to, I ended up going 34 weeks, which I live in San Diego.

Katie Ferraro (9m 5s):

We thought about moving for the delivery, but we ended up having wonderful care here. But 34 weeks was as long as they would let me go. But they were still six weeks premature. And all of all of the adjustments and everything you have to make and for us with starting solid foods, we always talk about waiting until that six month adjusted age. I, I guess I think of it always in the context of like, you know, you pass, you go to those, these high-risk childhood and intervention studies up until the time they're two or three. And then I'm like, my kids are, they're a mainstream school. I don't think about their preterm status affecting them, but you've kind of freaked me out with this accelerated aging stuff that maybe I do need to be more concerned for those kids

Tommy Wood (9m 39s):

That is more complex than that. I'd love to dig in some of the details. So this sort of premature aging phenotype, this is a, this is a term that I have made up just like reading the literature and that's cool. I

Katie Ferraro (9m 49s):

Make up lots of terms in baby-led weaning. I love that. You know, hey, it resonates though that that stuck with me. Oh my gosh.

Tommy Wood (9m 54s):

Yeah. And this is something that I presented on to some colleagues, researchers in the developmental neuroscience sphere. And there are a number of ways that you, that we can address this and, and your husband is of course, right, that there's this, this seem to be some imprinting, some epigenetic changes that happen in those born preterm or at risk of prematurity and then, you know, long term that then may affect appetite and caloric intake, which then can affect body composition and all these things which may be part of this. However, one of the things that's worth bearing in mind is that if we're thinking about diseases of aging, we know the major things that are gonna be important to prevent those from happening. So If, you are, you know, your kids, yes, on average they're gonna be at higher risk.

Tommy Wood (10m 37s):

However, if they're physically active, they eat a nutritious diet, they sleep well. You know, all these other things that

Katie Ferraro (10m 43s):

The modifiable risk factors we're still in control of. Okay, good to know.

Tommy Wood (10m 46s):

They are a hundred percent under your control and those are still the biggest things that that come into play because one other aspect, there's this whole area that the doe had hypothesis, developmental origins of health and disease. You may have heard of one of the confounding factors is that some of the things that predispose a mother to having a baby born preterm are then also the same environmental exposures that then, you know, contribute to long-term disease risk. Right? So it's not just what's happening

Katie Ferraro (11m 18s):

Like cigarettes, smoke exposure, would that be an example? Yeah,

Tommy Wood (11m 21s):

Cigarettes, smoke exposure is a great example. Other aspects of social determinants of health. We know that black mothers are at higher risk that seems to be related to stresses and discrimination there in their environment. And obviously that doesn't stop after pregnancy, right? That continues for both the, the mother and and her family. So some of these things will have an effect during the pregnancy. But then there's, there's a whole bunch of things that we know are important afterwards and the, the environment that you grow up in is probably the most important thing you know that determines long-term outcomes.

Katie Ferraro (11m 50s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back.

Katie Ferraro (13m 5s):

So I wanna ask you a question about DHA because for our exclusively breastfeeding Moms, there's no choices, right? You feed the milk your body's making, we know that's ideal for the infant, but when it comes to selecting a commercial infant formula, and there's been obviously so much buzz about that because of the formula shortage and then recalls et cetera. But If, you see brands that hype their DHA content. What is DHA and what role does it have on infant brain development?

Tommy Wood (13m 29s):

DHA stands for Dakota as a heo acid. It's a long chain omega3 fatty acid. And the other one people may have heard of is EPA, which has more of an effect on our cardiovascular health rather than brain health, which DHA is particularly important for ends particularly during the last trimester of pregnancy. But then also for the first two or three years after birth, DHA is actively accumulated in the brain. It is one of the most common fats in the brain and it's actually so tightly regulated that the mother's DHA stores are sacrificed in order to make sure that the baby gets enough. So you store DHA in your FAT tissue.

Tommy Wood (14m 10s):

That's one of the, one of the great reasons that adipose is really important. It's a, it's a store of DHA. Some of that gets stored in the baby's own FAT tissue. One of the reasons why humans are the only primate that has FAT Babies is so that we can store nutrients and energy to support the brain. One of those is DHA. The placenta works really hard to make sure that enough DHA is getting to the baby and then this actively continues to accumulate throughout the first few years of life. You know, because it makes such a critically important part of the membranes around cells, particularly concentrating in the synapses, which are the, the bits of the neurons that talk to each other as well as in the mitochondria, which are sort of the powerhouse, the energy generators in the cells.

Tommy Wood (14m 54s):

That's where DHA sort of actively accumulates. So it's really important for all those functions.

Katie Ferraro (14m 59s):

So for when infants are starting solid foods, they're gradually gonna be getting more nutrition from food and less from infant milk. Is it still important to include these d DHA rich food sources? And it sounds like it cuz right, they're still accumulating it. What are the food sources of DHA once we move out of the infant milk arena?

Tommy Wood (15m 18s):

Yeah, so probably for you know, several years I wouldn't really define a cutoff. Maybe even so the brain finishes, myelinating finishes developing essentially in your early to mid twenties. That's when the final sort of set of your brain is there and probably across that entire period of time, ensuring enough DHA is gonna be important. This can come from various sources but seafood is obviously the most critical one. That's the richest source of of DHA. You'll get a little bit from eggs, you can get some from. There are, there are plant-based sources if needed. There are sort of algal DHA sources that can be acquired some DHA.

Tommy Wood (16m 2s):

And the longer omega three s can be made from shorter chain versions. So alpha lin lennic acid, which is a shorter chain omega-3, that's the one that you find in things like nuts and seeds. And so we can make some, it's probably partly genetic whether you can make enough just from those sources and it's a little bit of a gray area in the research cuz sometimes when you look at people who don't consume any DHA themselves, some of them have enough, some of them don't. And that's probably an interaction of the diet and some some genetic factors as well.

Katie Ferraro (16m 36s):

You mentioned the omega-3 fatty acids So. in our program we help Babies learn how to eat a hundred different foods before they turn one. And this approach helps the baby achieve diet diversity. And there's a whole great body of research starting to emerge about the importance of diet diversity and you know, reducing the severity of pick eating and increasing the likelihood of independence eating. So we're like really pushing this idea and we emphasize you, you gotta introduce those Allergenic foods, the potentially Allergenic foods early and often and one of which is fish. So I know sometimes we hear fish referred to as brain food, but you mentioned the seafood and that it has, you know, the omega-3 fatty acids, both the DHA and the EPA. Are there other sources of omega three fatty acids if like sometimes families like hey we don't, we just don't eat that much fish.

Katie Ferraro (17m 18s):

What other foods are good to incorporate in the Weaning diet that may be sources of omega-3 outside of seafood.

Tommy Wood (17m 23s):

There's some that you can get from eggs and then there's gonna be sources that that provide some of the building blocks like nuts and seeds which will then help you generate more of them. But seafood really is the primary source in the diet or can can supplement if needed.

Katie Ferraro (17m 41s):

Can I ask you about the eggs like the omega three sometimes you see like the value added eggs, right? Like buy this brand because there's as extra omega-3 but as I understand it like it's infinitesimal like there's not really that much more omega-3. They just feed the chicken a feed that's more probably dependent on seafood that has higher levels of EPA and then they would have that pass through to the egg. Is that how that works? Yeah,

Tommy Wood (18m 5s):

You're right, they, they're supplemented. I in general would recommend incorporating seafood

Katie Ferraro (18m 11s):

Exactly. Those expensive eggs only have a very, very, very small amount. It's like having a tiny little taste of fish would be the equivalent. Like you're not gonna get all your baby's EPA from eggs are wonderful, great source of nutrition, iron, et cetera.

Tommy Wood (18m 23s):

Some seafood is worth focusing on if possible.

Katie Ferraro (18m 24s):

So we do a lot of work on helping parents make their food safe for the baby to eat. And that's obviously beneficial for nutrition development, texture tolerance, taste preference, all that stuff. So our audience is super aware of iron and vitamin D talk a a lot about them and their role in the Weaning period. Let's start first with iron. Could you just explain what the role that the mineral iron plays on cognitive development in Babies?

Tommy Wood (18m 48s):

The most important thing with respect to iron and cognizant and brain development is particularly related to the white matter. So this is something that we focus on and we we're actively doing research on again in preterm Babies because as with most nutrients, most of the accumulation happens in the last trimester. And that's the trimester when those Babies are not when they've been born and they're in the, they're in the newness of intensive care unit and all of their nutrition is being handled externally. And we see that the more iron that those Babies get and the earlier they get it, essentially the better for their for their brains. And this is research done with extremely preem infants. So those who are born 24 to 28 weeks gestation.

Tommy Wood (19m 29s):

When you look at the sort of related animal research and other research, it's really the white matter which is this layer of the brain that sits under the gray matter, the core cortex on the outside, but it's responsible for these really fast connections between different areas of the brain. That's why it's white. It has more FAT around the outside of it in myelin and that creates faster connections. So then when you're looking at cognitive function or other neurodevelopmental markers maybe in as a toddler or or in early childhood, then those are the things that can be affected by not getting enough iron. And so most of the important iron accumulation happens in utero If you If you go to full term, but some continuing iron requirement is needed for then for later development as well.

Tommy Wood (20m 14s):

And we know that sort of worldwide anemia or iron deficiency is one of the commonest causes of worse neurodevelopmental outcomes in kids. So there's still an ongoing iron requirement though it's not necessarily huge If, you do make it to full term as a fully nourished infant cuz you know, human breast milk has a lot less iron than other types of milk but it, it's still perfectly adequate for normal brain development

Katie Ferraro (20m 40s):

And very well absorbed by the infant's body. So don't wanna give the message that there's not iron in it, there's not as much as in formula but it's the perfect type for your baby. And I wanted to ask you if it still holds true. I know historically you always, you know learn when you're learning nutrition and and teaching nutrition that Babies get that big bolus of iron towards the tail end of pregnancy from their mom and that carries them through for about six months of age. But then at around the six month mark, the iron stores, those maternal iron stores do start to dip and it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't go to zero. You don't have to get a hundred percent of your iron from food starting at six months because we know that infant milk be that breast milk or formula will still provide most of the baby's iron as they're learning how to eat. But for the preterm Babies, the ones who didn't cook for that last trimester, they didn't get that bowls of iron obviously they would treat it in the NICU and probably given as you mentioned external nutrition, do the maternal iron stores that they got, I guess it was replaced in the nicu, does that also last six months or is there something different about the timing of starting to need supplemental iron outside of infant milk different for preterm versus full-term Babies?

Tommy Wood (21m 41s):

That is a very good question and I am pretty sure that we don't know in general there is a big focus now on treating preterm infants with what they call erythropoiesis stimulating agents, which sort of like helps them retain iron and and build red blood cells cause they're not getting those signaling factors from from the mother. But then in order to support that you need to give a bunch of extra iron. And in general it seems like not enough iron is being given. There's, there's been a long period of time where doctors are really worried about giving additional iron because it, cuz they thought it would create oxidative stress, which free iron does do.

Tommy Wood (22m 20s):

However it seems that the capacity and the requirement of these Babies born preterm is probably greater than we originally thought. So my guess is that even though they're getting some in the NICU are sort of data that we're, we're working on, we're publishing this kind of stuff, actively suggests that they need more than they're getting, we're doing clinical trials in this currently and so they're probably not gonna have the same stores on board as if they'd gone to full term and their, their mother was also iron replete.

Katie Ferraro (22m 48s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back. How about vitamin D cuz we have vegan families who don't consume Fortified dairy foods. Should they be continuing Vitamin D Drops for their baby after they start solid foods? Or are there vegan appropriate sources of vitamin D that they could get from foods?

Tommy Wood (23m 14s):

You can get some vitamin D and and convert it from things like mushrooms. There's vitamin D too in mushrooms and some of it does seem to have a biological effect that you can convert into the active form of of vitamin D

Katie Ferraro (23m 26s):

But it's not all mushrooms, right? Like they have to be like under certain UV conditions in the growth cycle to have the vitamin D. Is that true?

Tommy Wood (23m 35s):

It's on average, yes. But most sort of general white or butter mushrooms that you, that you get from the, from the store will have, will have some my approach to vitamin D as much as it's possible. So particularly If, you are concerned that intake is not going to be adequate? Well first of all we can make our own vitamin D if we get outside and have exposure to the sun, that would be my primary. I think there's enough evidence now to suggest that small, small amounts of sun exposure as long as you're not, you know, actively causing burning or anything like that are beneficial for in a number of different ways. So I, I think that small doses of of sun exposure regularly are very important for human health.

Tommy Wood (24m 17s):

So that's one option. But then equally If you are concerned there's not enough coming in through the diet and you know there's not enough coming from sun exposure then ideally I would check levels and then see whether supplementation is required. But

Katie Ferraro (24m 29s):

Isn't it the case with vitamin D that nobody can agree on what a lab value is? Like I know we're in San Diego at U C S D, they have a vitamin D conference every year and they just fight about lab values.

Tommy Wood (24m 37s):

We can usually agree on deficiency. Okay, so you know, if the level is below 20 or 30 then long term we know that's associated with, with health risks.

Katie Ferraro (24m 47s):

And can you check that in infants? I don't,

Tommy Wood (24m 49s):

Yeah, I mean I, I wouldn't necessarily, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that all six month olds need to go for a blood test. But you know, particularly If you are concerned and you have, you know, you have a, a pediatrician who you could work with then it is, it is possible to, to test

Katie Ferraro (25m 4s):

And it's more like when Babies start walking, right? Because that's when we see rickets kind of manifest itself. If it's going to happen that the weight of the baby's growing body causing the boat out legs, it's not like Babies don't walk at six months of age. Right?

Tommy Wood (25m 18s):

Yeah but also this is super, super, super

Katie Ferraro (25m 19s):

Rare. No, I know. We'll put the disclaimer on this is super rare you guys feed your baby the dairy foods if you're vegan, do some mushrooms go in the sun on occasion and you'll get your vitamin D.

Tommy Wood (25m 28s):

Yeah, like rickets doesn't really happen anymore except in very rare occasions. So like if juice dietary regions and other reasons you're at high risk, I would consider thinking about this, but in general it, it shouldn't really be a concern.

Katie Ferraro (25m 44s):

Are there specific periods during infancy or early childhood when adequate nutrition is especially critical for optimal brain development? And then what would be the potential consequences of nutrient deficiencies during these periods?

Tommy Wood (25m 57s):

The highest risk period is essentially in tro like that's when you are actively accumulating some of these nutrients that then like you say are used for several months after birth. Essentially the earlier the, the greater the risk. So you know, the first few months or couple of years after birth is that, I mean breast milk provides a huge number of the nutrients formula has been getting better and better as people start to appreciate this as well. So, so that's certainly much better than it was even 10 or 20 years ago. I don't wanna say this is the period that it really matters. It does always matter. But then I also don't want to, you know, have people be really worried about one particular area. If you're doing the best you can within, you know, across those periods, then, then I think that that's gonna be great.

Katie Ferraro (26m 40s):

And I think you made a great point with iron that worldwide it is the most common micronutrient deficiency and parents are obsessed about it in infancy cuz they know that part of the Weaning diet, they have to learn how to teach their baby to eat iron foods. But we don't forget about it when the baby turns one year of age because iron deficiency in toddlerhood and early childhood is still very, very common and still super important. So we, we want you to continue these variety of foods even as you moved out of the infancy phase because your baby still as a toddler or child, older child will be recognizing the benefits of that varied nutrition, which should incorporate iron, vitamin D, EPA, DHA, et cetera. So in addition to breastfeeding and commercial infant formulas. Are there any other dietary approaches or specialized diets that have shown like potential benefits for supporting healthy brain development in infants?

Tommy Wood (27m 27s):

In reality, I think the, the best evidence just exists for, so particularly as you transition to, to solid foods. The best evidence ex exists for an omnivorous diet, which is essentially, which feels a little vague, but the reason why I focus on it that way is because the, the research is a little sketchy, but particularly fully plant-based diets seem to be provide a risk for nutrient insufficiencies, lacto over vegetarians don't seem to have those same risks. So, but then you, you're getting a lot of those nutrients that that we talked about often they, they may incorporate seafood as well in those diets. So I think a varied omnivorous diet is the one that we have the most evidence for And we can talk about individual, individual nutrients and why, but I think the main thing is that, and there are, you know, the majority of pediatric associations around the world will say this, that they do not recommend entirely plant-based diets for developing infants.

Tommy Wood (28m 21s):

You can worry about that when you're an adult If you want to absolutely, but a varied omnivorous diet. It is best incorporating seafood. So there have been some studies in the UK and the Seychelles looking at, you know, those who do and don't incorporate seafood. And seafood does seem to be important for cognitive outcomes.

Katie Ferraro (28m 37s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back. We, from a food Allergy standpoint, we always talk to parents too cuz we have vegan families who, you know, If, you look at the big nine potentially Allergenic foods, four of them are animal foods and we know the research is showing us the benefits of introducing those Allergenic foods early and often. But if you're vegan, you're not doing fish, shellfish, milk and eggs, you're missing out on the potential for your baby to have exposure to that protein early and often. and they might not choose to be vegan later on in life. And essentially you're increasing the risk of food Allergy by not introducing those foods. So we do work with families who kind of like, all right, I'll bend the rules and make the exception because I want my baby to have exposure to these nutrients, but also to the potentially Allergenic proteins which we know are so important to offer early and often.

Katie Ferraro (29m 29s):

And I just to close here, I kind of wanted to ask, since you're in the research space, what sort of ongoing studies or initiatives are there that are aimed at better understanding the impact of nutrition on infant brain development? Like what are the key questions that researchers are currently trying to answer in your field?

Tommy Wood (29m 45s):

Well, one thing that we're, and when I say we, I'm loosely connected to a lot of, it's driven by my personal mentor, Dr. Sunny Jewel, who's an expert in iron and the brain, particularly in Babies born preterm. So trying to improve iron status as early as possible. That's particularly in those who are at risk born preterm, that's something that we're actively working on. There's been increasing focus on supplementing DHA either in Babies born preterm, or even in mothers at risk of having Babies born preterm. And there is at least one randomized controlled trial that suggests that supplementing those mothers with DHA can reduce the likelihood of having a baby born preterm. So that's really important.

Tommy Wood (30m 25s):

You know, the, the best outcome is you prevent prematurity from happening entirely as much, as much as you can. That's important. Then I think more work needs to be done in terms of identifying different dietary patterns and how we can intervene and what the, the outcomes will be. So right now, depending on the pediatrician that I would choose to have a conversation with, one might tell me, oh well entirely plant-based diets are perfectly healthy for any, any human of any age. Right? And so the fact that there's still some disagreement there, cuz I don't necessarily agree with that stance unless you work really hard to make sure that enough of all the specific micronutrients are getting in, right?

Tommy Wood (31m 8s):

So, so we, a lot more work is needed to be done to, to really figure that out. I think in general, we then need to take into account, you know, who is at the greatest risk and how are we helping them? So there are initiatives around the world to remove animal foods from school meals and we don't even know what the impact of that will be, right? Maybe there'll be no impact and it'll be beneficial, but maybe, you know, a lot of kids, and now we're obviously talking of kids go, you know, school age, going to school, the highest risk kids, you know, from low socioeconomic status families, they rely on school foods to get a lot of their nutrition.

Tommy Wood (31m 51s):

If we start to remove nutrient dense foods from that, are we increasing their risk of, you know, later health issues? And my guess is that that's, that could potentially happen. So all those things are, are really important. How do we make sure, you know, the, the people who listen to this podcast, my guess is they're already doing so much better than what, you know, large sues of the population in terms of what they have access to, the changes they can make the, you know, how much influence they have over their environment, over their diets. Most people don't have that. So how are we impacting them by making these sort of policy changes in terms of what we feed kids at school and that kind of stuff. I think that's really important and a lot more work needs to be done there.

Katie Ferraro (32m 28s):

Well thank you for this conversation. I really appreciate it. I know it's a little bit different than your like typical audience, but tell those who are listening, if they wanna learn more about the research that you're doing, where can we find you on the internet?

Tommy Wood (32m 39s):

The easiest place is probably Instagram at Dr Tommy Wood. You can find me, usually I'm talking about the adult brain. But any questions related to, you know, baby's brains, you could feel free to send 'em along. If I dunno the answer, I probably know somebody that does know the answer. Happy to, happy to help. Well, thank

Katie Ferraro (32m 56s):

You so much. It's been a great conversation. I really appreciate your time.

Tommy Wood (32m 60s):

Great, thank you for having me.

Katie Ferraro (33m 1s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Dr. Tommy Wood on Instagram. He's at Dr. Tommy Wood and I'll link to his lab and some of the work that he's doing in the show notes page for this episode, which you can find at BLW podcast.com/350. Thank you to our partners at AirWave Media. If, you guys like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain. Check out some of the podcasts from AirWave. We're online at https://BLWpodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening and I'll see you next time.