When Feeding Hurts: How to Alleviate Infant Feeding Pain with Deb Flashenberg

Katie Ferraro (1s):

If you're feeling a little stressed or anxious or bummed about your mom life right now, I wanna tell you guys about a podcast I've been listening to called Meditation for Women, hosted by Katie from the Women's Meditation Network. Whether you wanna start your day with mindful attention, relieve stress or anxiety, or just fall asleep easier, Katie's meditations are so on point. And this is coming from another Katie who's not normally a meditation sort of person. Katie K from Women's Meditation Network is a busy mom too, so I feel like her meditations are totally geared to my level in life right now. Earlier today, I listened to the episode called In My Cave Guided Meditation because basically I feel like I work in a cave in front of my computer all day and her quick meditation helped me get my head and my heart set for the day.

Katie Ferraro (46s):

Check out Meditation for Women podcast and you can find all of Katie's other shows she's online at https://womensmeditationnetwork.com or search Meditation for Women wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thrive (59s):

Your baby choking on food is a very rare but real risk. This week I chatted with a mom on a parent call who was so anxious about starting solid foods for her baby, cuz her own grandfather had actually choked on food and died. And while it is important to recognize that there's no higher risk of choking when you do baby-led weaning compared to conventional adult led spoon feeding, it's still very important that in the event of a choking incident you know how to do CPR. I recommend that everybody who helps feed your baby take an infant refresher CPR course and that includes you if it's time to brush up on your CPR skills. I take this wonderful online CPR course myself every quarter that I can't recommend enough. The CPR course is from Thrive Training Institute and my affiliate discount code KATIE10 takes an additional $10 off the already very affordably priced online CPR course. So I recently partnered with the founder of Thrive. His name is Brandon. He's a dad and a certified CPR instructor. And along with a speech language pathologist who's also a pediatric swallowing expert, the three of us developed and co-teach a Choking Prevention and Response course. So parents who are particularly anxious about starting solid foods, they really love this course. So You can get $10 off both the CPR course and the Choking Prevention and Response course. If you use the affiliate Discount code, 'KATIE10'. So if you go to the website, bit.ly/blwthrive, that's bit.ly/blwthrive and use the code 'KATIE10'. You can get $10 off both of these online courses.

Deb Flashenberg (2m 30s):

One thing that really surprised me with my first child was how much sitting there is, I think it's 10 to 12 feeds in the beginning and that lessens over time. And then we're sitting, feeding baby. So there's a lot of sitting and that can create tightness in your hips and back. So it's kind of a full body discomfort for a lot of folks just from the repetition of sitting and feeding.

Katie Ferraro (2m 55s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, Registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby-led weaning here on the Baby-led Weaning Made Easy podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about Feeding leaving you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning. When you think of all the responsibilities that you have to keep your baby alive, like it can hurt your brain, okay, but feeding your baby can also hurt your body. So my guest today is Deb Flashenberg. She is an expert in all things prenatal and postnatal yoga.

Katie Ferraro (3m 36s):

She wants to help you feel pain free. And so in this episode, Deb's gonna be talking about the importance of things like breath and posture and positioning to help alleviate the aches and pains that come with bottle or breastfeeding or even starting solid foods with our babies. Deb Flashenberg is the founder of the Prenatal Yoga Center in New York City. She's on Instagram at Prenatal Yoga Center. She literally had me doing Yoga during this episode, so don't do this one while driving. She's like, do all these things except not while you're driving. So if you're driving, maybe hit pause and come back to this one. But get ready for a lot of good info about when feeding hurts. This is all about How to Alleviate Infant Feeding Pain with Deb Flashenberg.

Deb Flashenberg (4m 19s):

I know it's kind of fun to flip the tables. Thanks for having me.

Katie Ferraro (4m 22s):

So when I was a guest on your Yoga Birth Babies show, you really opened my eyes to how infant feeding and mom's bodies are connected. So I'm really excited to chat with you today about that. But before we get started, give us a little background or tell us about yourself, your professional expertise, please.

Deb Flashenberg (4m 40s):

Oh gosh, yeah, I have many hats I wear. So I am a mom of two, but I also have the Prenatal Yoga Center here in New York City that we are hitting our 21st birthday this summer, which is kind of amazing because I hope in the studio, cause

Katie Ferraro (4m 56s):

Your baby could legally drink now, like if it were a real baby. That's amazing. 21 years.

Deb Flashenberg (5m 2s):

Well, it's amazing cause I think about some of the students I had and they're like, like real people, adults now it's kind of crazy to think about that. So I have the Prenatal Yoga Center, and so obviously I'm a Yoga teacher, but I specialize in pre and postnatal Yoga. And then because I feel like education just gives me more fuel and more excitement and more to offer my students, I have a lot of different certifications. I'm also a labor support doula, a lamaze childbirth educator. I have a certification in pelvic floor Yoga, which I know we're gonna talk about. And then my most recent thing is I've completed a, it's a long title pre and postnatal corrective exercise specialist.

Deb Flashenberg (5m 44s):

And that was mind blowing and really changed how I saw the postpartum body. So I'm excited to talk about all of that.

Katie Ferraro (5m 52s):

Sometimes I'm grateful in nutrition that we have one credential, the Registered Dietitian Nutritionist credential. It's nationally recognized. There's no other, like you have so many things in Yoga, like you could seriously never stop learning and you should never stop learning. But like you're gonna run outta room to put all the credentials and certificates behind your name. But Yoga is your jam and Prenatal and postnatal Yoga is your specialty. Yes, yes,

Deb Flashenberg (6m 16s):

Yes. That is 100% my specialty. But it's different than like you have the Registered Dietitian. That is a very solid school. You know, like that is a very solid foundation. Yoga doesn't quite have that same, we have Yoga Alliance, but it's not really accrediting body. So I wanna just to make sure that I'm really well educated and I found that I needed extraneous certifications to do that

Katie Ferraro (6m 40s):

In 21 years of expertise. I love that. So one thing that I think a lot of parents don't know or anticipate is like parenting can be physically painful. Like yes, it Hurts your brain. Yeah. And it Hurts your pocketbook, but like it can hurt your body. And so our audience consists primarily of parents and caregivers, healthcare professionals, many of whom have babies and are helping them transition to solid foods. So we're kind of in the crosshairs of offering both Infant milk and starting to offer solid foods. So for our breastfeeding moms, let's start there. What are some common aches and pains that a breastfeeding mom might experience? And then can you follow it up with what can you do to help alleviate these, prevent them, whatever your recommendations may be.

Deb Flashenberg (7m 14s):

Sure. All right. So let's go with first the common aches and pains, and then I'll go into the solutions. But we'll think about what happens when, whether even breast or bottle, just the posture and the fatigue and what that does to your body. And so we tend to get, and I know we'll go more into this, but one of the biggest complaints I get from my students is wrist and thumb pain. And we'll talk more about that. But then also when you're feeding, if you don't have good support for baby, there can be a slumping situation. And then we're gonna get a tight neck, which can lead to head headaches and jaw pain, upper back pain, rib pain, shoulder pain. And then one thing that really surprised me with my first child was how much sitting there is you're, I mean, I think it's 10 to 12 feeds in the beginning and that lessens over time.

Deb Flashenberg (8m 2s):

And then we're sitting feeding baby. So there's a lot of sitting and that can create tightness in your hips and back. So it's kind of a full body discomfort for a lot of folks just from the repetition of sitting and Feeding. All right, so let's break that down. And now what do we do with all this? So your body's hurting and what are some of the solutions? So let's start the top. So neck pain, if you think about, especially if you're tired and you're slumping a little, what tends to happen is when the shoulders roll forward, we get this thing, I call it chicken neck or forward head where the chin sticks out more. Or if you're also feeding and looking at your baby, we get that tightness in the neck.

Deb Flashenberg (8m 44s):

So we get that neck tightness, headache. So one of the solutions, and we're gonna continue to come back to this posture and breath. So one thing we can think about when Feeding, whether breast or bottle, instead of bringing your breast or bottle to the baby, bring the baby up to you. And that's going to help lift the chest and help some of that neck tightness. So check your posture instead of letting the shoulders roll forward, think of lifting the corners of the armpits, having really good support. And then that can help alleviate some of that jaw and shoulder and neck tension. Now listeners, if you're not holding a baby or not driving a car, I can teach you a quick neck release exercise.

Deb Flashenberg (9m 26s):

It's a little massage that I do with my students a lot. So if your hands are free, then you're gonna make a little fist so that your knuckles are on the top. And then just drop your head to one side and take your knuckles right by your ear and then release your knuckles down the side of your neck. So it's like a little massage tool. And then you can also do from the back of your ear, ear all the way around to your clavicle. And I do this a lot, especially if I sit and we'd wanna get both sides. So if I'm sitting at a desk a lot, I get kinda that same forward head. So that's one way to help. and then we also tend to get upper back pain. So again, posture, I feel like I'm gonna be a broken record.

Deb Flashenberg (10m 6s):

Posture, posture, more posture. And so then also good breathing. When we are rounded and our back ribs aren't expanding, then we're not gonna get good breath. So we really wanna work on some really good breathing. So gentle twisting, child's pose. And again, posture. Now, rib pain, it's funny that a lot of students will talk about rib pain and then I'm asking them, especially postpartum when they're breastfeeding, I'm like, have you changed bras? And sometimes rib pain can just be a tight bra. And so check that out because that could be a quick easy solution. And then again, posture. All right, let's keep, am I, am I going too quickly how this

Katie Ferraro (10m 45s):

No, I mean we get, I get a lot of flack as a dietitian being the food police, you are totally the posture police, aren't you?

Deb Flashenberg (10m 52s):

I'm totally, I'm the posture and breath police. Like we're gonna go over posture, breath, pelvic floor like, but it comes back to posture. And it's not even like this perfect posture, it's just balanced posture. And we, we can talk more about that. And then hip flexors, your, your so has muscle, we tend to sit so much and the hips get really tight. So yes, besides posture, this

Katie Ferraro (11m 15s):

Wait is sitting really the new smoking, you know, you hear that and I'm like, oh my gosh, I sit,

Deb Flashenberg (11m 19s):

Oh my gosh, it totally is the, because it can affect your, so the funny thing is I was watching, I watch people on the subway and how they sit and I'm like, I wonder what your pelvic floor is like, I wonder what your breathing's like these are the thoughts like

Katie Ferraro (11m 32s):

Me staring at people feeding their babies and my husband's like, please stop staring at that mom. And I was like, oh, like I can't help it. Like

Deb Flashenberg (11m 36s):

Yeah, I'm like staring at how people walk, how they sit. And so the hip flexors is so as they get really, really tight because we're constantly sitting. So here's another fun one again, if you're not holding a baby or come back to this episode and try this if You can get on the Yoga mat. So we're gonna do what's called 360 breathing. So bring your hands by your lower ribs. So we're wrapping your hands around your side ribs. Now most of us are kind of chest and belly breathers, which is not gonna be good for diastrous, which we're gonna talk about. But now just breathe into your hands and see if you can feel how the rib cage opens like an umbrella on your inhale. And as you exhale it closes.

Deb Flashenberg (12m 16s):

So we're looking to get that really good breathing. Now if you're on your Yoga mat and you're trying this or you're just sitting and trying this, I'm gonna invite you to try a child's pose. So that is just coming onto your shins. Your knees are together. Now if you're breastfeeding and your breasts are full, this may not be so comfortable. So wait till you're empty and then you're just gonna fold over your legs. Now when your belly's against your thighs, your breath can't go into the front body, it has to fill your back ribs. And that's gonna help with some back rib mobility. But it's also gonna help relax your so as muscles that hip flexor. Cause a lot of times people just keep stretching and stretching and that's not necessarily gonna help relax it, these passive releases.

Deb Flashenberg (12m 58s):

So try that, that child's pose every time I get on the mat and I do that, I feel like I just went to the chiropractor because it really releases the back. So those are some of the kind of biggest hits that I hear from my students and that I see in class. And those are some of my quick go-tos. So listen to this again, those are listening and make sure you get a chance to try it.

Katie Ferraro (13m 17s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

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Katie Ferraro (14m 51s):

And I love it cuz you're reinforcing, I know like a lot of the messages like you know the i b CLCs share when you're breastfeeding, it's like don't bring your breast to the baby, bring the baby to your breast and then you catch yourself and you're like, oh my gosh, I totally am doing the thing I'm not supposed to do. So it's nice to hear reinforcement of like okay, these messages are helping you not only you know relax, et cetera, which helps with your milk production, but it's also helping with your posture. It's gonna help with your, the postpartum recovery

Deb Flashenberg (15m 15s):

And the pains because whose body wants to be in pain.

Katie Ferraro (15m 18s):

And you also just gave us permission to not wear restricting bras, which I like as well. Yeah cuz it can totally just be your bra you guys. Okay, so that's for breastfeeding. A lot of moms listening maybe bottle Feeding, I remember you mentioned same thing terms

Deb Flashenberg (15m 29s):

Thing breast or bottle.

Katie Ferraro (15m 29s):

Okay. Yep. But you were telling me like about mommy thumb and baby wrist, like what are these real maladies? I love them whether or not they're real, but what do you mean by these terms? How? How is bottle Feeding affected by pain in a way that might be different than breastfeeding if possible? And then any solutions here, it can

Deb Flashenberg (15m 45s):

Be the exact same, it can get the same issue from bottle and breast. It's the repetitive motion of holding baby or baby and bottle. So what's typically happening is, so if you're, again not driving, look at your hand and right at the mound of the, or kinda the bottom of the thumb, that area right above your wrist, a lot of people start to get pain right there. It's the tendons that can be swollen and painful. So one of my go-tos is something called nerve flossing. And again, I'm gonna talk you through it. So nerve flossing is when we're trying to mobilize and stretch the nerve cause it brings circulation to the nerve. We want that for healing and reducing pain. So again, if you're driving, pause this, do this when you get home, don't do this driving.

Deb Flashenberg (16m 27s):

But if you're not and you're not holding a baby, we're gonna do some nerve flossing. This is again one of my absolute go-tos pre and postnatal because prenatal people also get some weird wrist things, but particularly post when you're breast and bottle feeding. So okay, sit up tall, remember posture, we're gonna reach your arms out to the side like a big T. So your palms are facing down. Really stretch your arms out. Now just turn your palms to face down so your whole palm is facing down, the fingers are down and then you're gonna turn your palms to face up. So the fingers are up kinda like a stop and they're just gonna do down and up 10 times down and up 10 times. Keep your arms totally straight down and up 10 times.

Deb Flashenberg (17m 7s):

So that's glossing the nerves. Now another way you can do it is have your elbows by your side and your palm's facing up like you're holding a tray. So now my elbows are by my side, your fingertips are facing forward, you're holding a tray and then you're going to just drop your arms down by your side and you're gonna make a little curve so your arms are straight but your palm is facing up like you're holding a water balloon

Katie Ferraro (17m 29s):

Like a teapot,

Deb Flashenberg (17m 31s):

Like a, like a teapot. So you're up and then you're down your straight arms down by your side. Imagine you're holding a little water balloon and then you're gonna go up and down, up and down and you're do that 10 times. So while it may, you might be thinking, how is this helping? You're again, you're stretching the nerves, you're getting circulation there and that can help. So those that have that and there's such strange names, mommy thumb or baby wrist, it can be really painful. Some people end up wearing splints. I also am a huge fan of getting some acupuncture for that. Some people end up getting steroid shots in their wrist. It can get so bad. So I'm hoping before it gets to that point, we can do some simple things on a daily basis just to help.

Deb Flashenberg (18m 11s):

So we don't get to that point where you're, we are pretty immobile and in a lot of pain.

Katie Ferraro (18m 15s):

Okay, I know we have been talking about posture kind of weaved throughout this conversation, but how does poor posture when you're feeding your baby, like how does it affect other parts of your body?

Deb Flashenberg (18m 26s):

Oh my gosh. Right. So now we're gonna, we're gonna talk about the pelvic floor soon. Alright cuz I'm obsessed with that. So it's interesting the more I start studying physiology, the more I see the importance of posture. And I think sometimes we think perfect posture. Like we're holding a book on our head and we're all stiff and straight. That's not the posture we're looking for. We don't wanna feel like we're stiff and we have to be like a, like a robot. It's really about balance. So what we're looking for is that we're balancing the head instead of that chicken neck over the spine. And the ribs and the pelvis and the hips are balanced. So what happens in postpartum, we've lost a lot of core stability. We think about the abs have been stretched out, the back muscles are tight, the hips are often pushed forward.

Deb Flashenberg (19m 10s):

So all that coupled up with being tired, then we often tend to collapse in the front body. And that's why so many of the students are like, I need chest openers, chest openers. So how does this affect the, the postpartum body? It's like this rippling effect when we're tired, the shoulders come forward when we're tired and the shoulders are forward, the chin comes forward. And then not just, you know, posturally that doesn't maybe feel so good that's gonna affect how we breathe. So for listeners, this might be kind of a new idea about the diaphragm. It's this dome like muscle at the bottom of your lungs and we want it to work evenly. So when we inhale, it drops and spreads and the ribcage expands.

Deb Flashenberg (19m 51s):

And when we exhale it lifts and domes. So if this isn't working well that's gonna affect our nervous system instead of being able to fall into the rest and relax. That can affect tension in the back. That can greatly affect the pelvic floor. And that's something I don't think a lot of people think about is how your breathing affects your core strength and your pelvic floor.

Katie Ferraro (20m 13s):

Okay, wait, I gotta ask you a question. Like a pelvic floor, like what organs are we talking about? Like what it's muscle is, okay, like I, this term is, you know, thrown around all the time, but I'm like sure. I mean I obviously run a podcast like don't show me, but like where is your pelvic floor?

Deb Flashenberg (20m 30s):

All right, so I'm so glad you asked that because I'm obsessed with this. I wish it was not just a podcast and I could pull, I have a pelvic floor model with all the muscles because I love teaching with it. So most of us think the pelvic floor and we hear from carer like oh just do your Kegels. And most of us like, oh I'm gonna squeeze my vaginal muscles. It's so much more. So if anyone can visualize a pelvis, it's literally, well there's three layers. The deepest layer is literally like a bowl. It's attached to the inside of the pelvis and it is kinda like a basket of support. and then we have more of the superficial. And so, all right, if you're sitting, well go from side to side and see if you can feel your sip bones, those two bones at the base of your pelvis, your sip bones, tuberosities.

Deb Flashenberg (21m 15s):

So picture those now rock a little back and see if you can feel your tailbone. And then rock a little forward and see if You can get a sense of where your pub pubic bone is. So those four boney points make a diamond. So those are the, the attachment points of your superficial pelvic floor. And then we've got the deeper pelvic floor. So it's literally like a bowl. And these muscles, if we think about our torso, the pelvis, these are literally the support of everything inside. So right above the pelvic floor you've got the bladder, you've got the rectum, you've got the vagina and uterus, then you've got the intestines.

Deb Flashenberg (21m 55s):

Like everything is basically piled up on the pelvic floor. And I ideally our pelvic floor is kinda like a shock absorber. It should be springy, it should have the ability to support all the organs inside the whole content. And then it should also be able to release and stretch. And a lot of us have lost the ability to let it release and stretch and a lot of us are walking around with super tight pelvic floors and that can lead to back pain, that can lead to incontinence, that can lead to painful sex. And most of us don't really think about where why these things are happening. We think, oh I'm having back pain or I'm having hip pain, or you know, sex kind of hurts and they just dismiss it or try to find some bandaids like more lube or something.

Deb Flashenberg (22m 42s):

But it could be a tight pelvic floor, a constipation, tailbone pain, you know, some big issues that most of us don't wanna live with. And that could, yeah, that could be cuz we have a dysfunctional pelvic floor.

Katie Ferraro (22m 52s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back.

Katie Ferraro (23m 33s):

So how do you get it back in function?

Deb Flashenberg (23m 36s):

You're like, I

Katie Ferraro (23m 38s):

Asking for a friend.

Deb Flashenberg (23m 39s):

Well we need to think about, again, it's gonna come back to posture and breath and habits. So, oh gosh, where to start with this to get it functional. So I guess the first thing we wanna think about is let's look a posture cuz you know I'm kinda the posture police. So the diaphragm, this dome like muscle that we use for breathing, it mirrors that of the pelvic floor. So if you've ever seen a jellyfish, you know how they kinda undulate up and down. So I think of the diaphragm like that. So when you inhale, the diaphragm drops and spreads everything between the diaphragm and the pelvic floor. All your organs, you know, if you were pregnant, a baby there. So all of that gently gets pushed down into the pelvic floor and the pelvic floor naturally stretches and we need that.

Deb Flashenberg (24m 23s):

We need the pelvic floor like a trampoline to naturally stretch. Think like when you jump in a trampoline, it goes down to spring back up. So then when you exhale and then diaphragm domes, it creates a vacuum and kinda draws all that contents up. So they need to work to, to have your pelvic floor really springing. Now posture, postpartum, breastfeeding, bottle Feeding were slumping. If you're slumped forward the diaphragm's not really dropping well. So all that juiciness that we need to come into the pelvic floor and stretch doesn't go down. Then if you're also slumping and tucking your tailbone, we need that sea curve of your spine, then the back of your pelvic floor is probably getting tight.

Deb Flashenberg (25m 5s):

And that's why we have a lot of people with more tension around the tailbone. That's why a lot of people are constipated. It's Hurts when they poop cause that pelvic floor is tight. Then you can have people that are rib flares. So think about those that kind of just stick their chest out, not, you know, not trying to show up their boobs. They just have, you know, poor posture where they're rib flaring forward. Then the diaphragm's going more forward and it's not landing evenly on the pelvic floor. So then we might get tension in the front of the pelvic floor. So posture's gonna affect how the diaphragm works. If the diaphragm's not functional, again, pelvic floor issues, also your nervous system. We can be in that fight or flight state, which isn't good in general, it's not definitely not good for breastfeeding. You know, we need the body to be in that relaxed state to produce milk.

Deb Flashenberg (25m 49s):

So how do we get it? So we get back to really good breathing, we're gonna get back to that 360 breathing around the rib cage. Not just in the front. Ring it back to posture. But then we can also look at our habits are we clenchers, think about holding a baby and you have seven so you've held a baby or two. So when we're sit, when we're standing holding a baby, we tend to push the hips forward to counter the weight and then the shoulder is back. So then when the hips are forward, we tend to be clenching through the glutes that's gonna weaken the glutes and tighten the pelvic floor. Then we tend to be sinking in the chest. So I think it also goes to strengthening other muscles because if we're not in good posture, the body's compensating.

Deb Flashenberg (26m 33s):

So a lot of people, and this is another horrible term, so I I, I'm a little hesitant to use it, but have you ever heard of the term mom butt? It's like a flat butt. Which is funny cuz people with big butts are

Katie Ferraro (26m 44s):

Like, I wish I had a flat butt if people with flat butts like wish they had a bigger butt. I don't know. But I guess we all have moms. We're all moms and we have a butt so's

Deb Flashenberg (26m 50s):

Mom butt. So it's horrible terms reversible butt. It's, it means that, or like some people call like pancake butt, like a really flat butt. Meaning that there's not a lot of strength in your glute muscles, in your, so in your butt muscles. And when all those supporting muscles are not strong and able to support, I think of the pelvic floor, kind of like a mom, at least in my world where you're like, Hey friends, come on, I need you to show up and do the work and if you don't show up I'm gonna have to do even more work. It's like, like a lot of moms. So then the pelvic floor is taking the work of the hips and the inner thighs and the outer thighs and the butt and it's just making it tighter. and then we get the super tight pelvic floor.

Deb Flashenberg (27m 35s):

So good breathing, good posture and really strong supporting muscles will help a pelvic floor be more balanced

Katie Ferraro (27m 41s):

And like what's the timeframe here? Because I know personally my youngest are five, I think, I dunno if I told, I have a set of quadruplets and a set of twins. Yeah so like there's been some expansion, there's a lot of excess skin. I mean you know my daughter yesterday was like, and I'm the reason why you'll never wear a bikini again. It's like, well there's lots of reasons but that's one of them. And like my youngest are five though. Like how long do you get to recover from this? I know personally when I walk into the gym and I see the jump ropes on the floor, like I wanna leave cuz I know like I'm gonna go, I'm gonna pee over all over myself. But I love jump roping. But like is it too late if, if it's a couple years past it, like I always think this pelvic floor stuff, like we're always talking to moms like right after having their baby, I'm like, these moms have a lot going on. Your boobs are full of milk, you're carrying this baby, you're not sleeping like sorry, but working on my pelvic floor health is pretty low on the priority list.

Katie Ferraro (28m 29s):

Like can you repair stuff a little bit later if you're, you

Deb Flashenberg (28m 33s):

Absolutely can and you should. Cuz here's something really interesting. The postpartum hormones are actually similar to your postmenopausal hormones. So if we don't fix the pelvic floor and get it more balanced postmenopausal, it's gonna come back to haunt you because when your estrogen level is low, your muscle tone is low. Which is why a lot of post-menopausal women have incontinence issues. So let's fix it before then. So it doesn't have to be the first month. You are absolutely right, like the first, I mean again, for most of us having a new baby is life-changing and you're just trying to keep everyone alive and well and then you're thinking

Katie Ferraro (29m 15s):

And then the pelvic floor influencers are like stressing you out. I'm like unfollow if it's stressing you out and it's not a priority.

Deb Flashenberg (29m 22s):

Yeah. So I do always recommend a pelvic floor PT if you can, you know, in total side note here, but other countries, and I know like in France they actually have pelvic floor rehab as part of their postpartum rehab. It would be amazing if we had that like right now

Katie Ferraro (29m 38s):

Or had postpartum rehab or they didn't kick you outta the hospital one day after you have a baby and then you never see them again. Yeah, we've got a few, there's a lot of things we could fix in the healthcare system. I, I do wanna like get to the solution part though cause I'm feeling a little bit depressed about a lot of things. But like does Yoga help all of these things? Is that the link here? It

Deb Flashenberg (29m 55s):

Can help a lot of them. So again, I'm always about if you can see a pelvic floor physical therapist because they're going to get specifically to your pelvic floor. But in Yoga we do, we do have the, the poses. Again, I would hopefully recommend somebody if you're a listener and you're going to posting a Yoga, go to someone that's trained in this. So we do a lot of poses and exercises that are strengthening the surrounding muscles. So we're working a lot on strong glutes. We're working on restrengthening the back, we're working on relaxing the so as get the inner legs, the adductors, the outer legs, finding how to use your core.

Deb Flashenberg (30m 35s):

Again, finding again, posture and breathing. Because what we don't want is to someone to say, oh my gosh, my pelvic floor, I'm just gonna keep squeezing that pelvic floor because we can actually from Kegels make things too tight. And then you can still have leakage, you can still try to get that jump rope and pee yourself. So the Yoga can be a really good path to finding balance and also figuring out what's going on with your own personal pelvic floor. Are you tight and weak? Are you just weak? You know, like, so where do we need to find that balance again, the pelvic floor should be this springy balanced situation.

Deb Flashenberg (31m 16s):

Not too tight, not too loose. Kinda like the Goldilocks. So definitely Yoga done properly with really good breathing too.

Katie Ferraro (31m 22s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

Katie Ferraro (32m 16s):

And I know we are working our way, like top down talking about some of the, you know, maladies associated with Feeding your baby, when you get to the pelvic floor stuff like you mentioned constipation, you mentioned urinary incontinence. Like is there some sort of, you know, diagnostic test for your pelvic health? Is green light good f bad? Like

Deb Flashenberg (32m 35s):

I think the feedback of what's going on with your body, do you have, you know, pain with vaginal penetration that can be a sign that you have tension in your pelvic floor, sorry,

Katie Ferraro (32m 43s):

But also not a high priority to be doing that right after you have a baby. Like I think a lot of this stuff is like, it takes a while to unfold and our audience, they're not immediately postpartum most of them, but as we know, lots of the postpartum stuff lingers. And so, oh yeah, I appreciate this conversation. Just of things even me five years out like, well I could be working more on some of this stuff. Like, you know, or, or it becomes your baseline and you think it, it always needs to hurt lots of different things that maybe don't. Like literally a mom who just had twins was like, I guess I'm just gonna pee on myself forever when I jump rope. And I'm like, no, I heard this pelvic health Yoga lady say that you don't really have to do that. You

Deb Flashenberg (33m 20s):

Don't. Yeah, it's norm. Okay, let me say it's common but not normal function of our body. So yes, five years out, 10 years out, people can fix pelvic floor issues, they can fix diastasis. So if someone is trying to figure out what's going on with my pelvic floor, here's some basic indicators. And this isn't just someone at six weeks, six months, it can be six years postpartum. So pain with vaginal penetration can be a sign of pelvic floor tightness. If you have tailbone pain, if you have constipation, if it Hurts when you poop, if you feel, if you are often sitting and then you get up and you're like, oh my sip bones really hurt. Or if you've been doing a lot, if you've heard like, oh I should tighten up my pelvic floor and you're doing a ton of Kegels and everything feels worse.

Deb Flashenberg (34m 4s):

Or if you've been doing a ton of Kegels and you have more leakage. Or if you type try to take a nice deep breath and you just feel like your breath can't drop. All of these are indicators that your pelvic floor might be too tight. Because a lot of us are gonna hear, especially, you know, if you go to your six week checkup or whatever, they're like, okay, squeeze my fingers. Oh, just do your Kegels. That's not always the answer. And unfortunately, while I absolutely have respect for OBGYNs, their and midwives, their focus is not the pelvic floor. Their focus is the parent and the baby and, and a smooth, healthy delivery. So they're not really at the place to necessarily give pelvic floor advice.

Deb Flashenberg (34m 43s):

So I'm always about see a specialist and then try to indicate what's going on with your pelvic floor.

Katie Ferraro (34m 51s):

Deb, this has been so incredibly helpful. Where can our audience go to learn more about your work if they are so inclined to start working on the pelvic floor help, but also some of the other just physiological things associated like when you realize, gosh, I don't feel awesome and some of it's related to having a baby and that's okay to say, but we can do things to work on ourselves and how do you help parents do that?

Deb Flashenberg (35m 10s):

Everyone can find me at Prenatal Yoga Center on my website, https://prenatalyogacenter.com. We have postnatal classes online and you are always welcome to be there. We have some students that are well over a year that still come to our class cause it's really fun. You can find me on Instagram at Prenatal Yoga Center YouTube. And then my podcast is Yoga Birth Babies.

Katie Ferraro (35m 31s):

Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

Deb Flashenberg (35m 34s):

Thank you so much.

Katie Ferraro (35m 35s):

Thank you so much for listening to that episode with Deb Flashenberg. She is so amazing. I, I'm not a big yoga person, but anyone that can get me to do yoga on a podcast episode is amazing. You guys can find her online, https://prenatalyogacenter.com. I'm gonna link all of the resources she mentioned in the show notes for this episode, which you can find at https://blwpodcast.com/344. Thank you to our partners at AirWave Media. If you guys like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from AirWave Media. We are online at https://blwpodcast.com. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next time.