Back Blows for Babies: When Do I Administer CPR? with @thrivetraininginstitute Brandon Doerksen

Katie Ferraro (0s):

One of the benefits of doing baby-led weaning is that eventually your baby will end up being able to eat modified versions of the same foods that you and the rest of the family do. So the point is you don't have to make special foods or buy special foods or short order cook for the baby because basically you guys are all eating the same thing. And I see that coming true with this baby Ezra that I'm working with. He's my friend Carissa's baby. I'm making all of his 100 First Foods. We're moving into week 14. So like this baby is like more than nine months of age now he's got his pincer grasp, he's jamming. Mom's like Oh, my gosh, thankfully he's drinking so much less formula, getting more nutrition from food. She's like, I love it because I actually make the foods on the weekend and I bring it to their family on either Sunday or Monday.

Katie Ferraro (43s):

And I try to make as much as I can. I have this tendency to like cook too much food 'cause I'm used to making food for my family and I have seven kids. I just, I'm from a family, I'm the oldest of six. I just like naturally cook for a lot of people so I'm like, I don't wanna overwhelm you with food. But she's like, I love it. You can't send me too much food because the rest of our family is eating it to, ioncluding her preschool age son, her husband, and the baby. So now if it hasn't happened for you, I just want to remind you that you will get to the point where your baby in just a few short weeks will be eating modified foods of the same foods the rest of the family is. So the foods that we're having this week, I'm working on recipes for Ezra, well it'll be next week for him, but I'm making 'em this week. Raspberry is his new fruit of the week. The new vegetable that we're doing is eggplant.

Katie Ferraro (1m 23s):

I'm a little bit nervous because his older brother, Ollie, Ezra's brother Ollie had had some reactions to eggplant when he was a baby. So I'm gonna try baby Baba ghanoush, which is one of my favorite recipes for baby-led weaning to see how eggplant goes. I'm working on a new sorghum recipe. So that's a whole grain, it's kind of rando, but it's really high and nutritious and super cheap and affordable and easy to make safe for babies. White beans is his new protein. And then the new allergenic food of the week is clams and I know a lot of families struggle with shellfish, so I always try to think of lots of different ways for you guys to easily incorporate shellfish because it's a potentially allergenic food. So these are the exact sequence of foods that I'm offering every week to help transition Ezra to solid foods. If you wanna learn more about doing this for your baby, come check out my free online workshop.

Katie Ferraro (2m 5s):

It's called Baby-Led Weaning For Beginners. I just redid this. It's a 75 minutes, which I know is kind of long, but like I think it's important if you wanna do a really comprehensive overview of how baby-led weaning works, what it looks like, what you should be doing, and then what you should not be doing when it comes to food preparation. It's all there inside of the workshop. Plus everybody on this free training gets a copy of my original 100 First Foods list so that you'll never run out of ideas that both your baby and hey, the rest of your family can eat. You can sign up for this week's workshop at babyledweaning.co and it's actually a prerecorded workshop so you can click on the link. Take it now, take it later today. Do it tomorrow when your baby's napping. Honestly, whenever works for your schedule, I just want you to get this info so you can walk away feeling more confident in your baby's ability to self feed can sign up again at babyledweaning.co/workshop and I hope to see you there.

Katie Ferraro (2m 53s):

You can sign up again at babyledweaning.co/workshop and I hope to see you there. One of the best things about starting solid Foods I think is that finally it's a phase of child development that doesn't require you to buy a bunch of stuff, right? Your baby can make a ton of progress with one or two good quality silicone suction mats or bowls, an open cup and a few tiny spoons for self-feeding. My favorite feeding gear brand ezpz is having a quick little holiday sale right now. You can get 15% off all of the feeding gear at ezpzfun.com with the affiliate discount code BLWHOLIDAY15, they make the original silicone suction mats and bowls. All their products are designed by their pediatric feeding expert and they help promote independent eating.

Katie Ferraro (3m 34s):

Again, that ezpz sale code for 15% off is BLWHOLIDAY15 now through December 10th at ezpzfun.com.

Brandon Doerksen (3m 45s):

Now most people think that step one is to call 911. If there's two people present, sure have the other person call 9 1 1. It takes six to eight minutes for an ambulance to get to you. If your child is choking for six to eight minutes, they will not be alive when the ambulance gets there. And that's a sobering reality and that's why we, we teach what We do. 'cause we want to end parents' anxiety around choking. But you need to know what to do. Otherwise you're gonna think that your strategy is to call 9 1 1 and wait And I never want any parent that's listening to this to think that the only hope they have if their child were to choke is to call 9 1 1 and wait. I'm not willing to give that as the solution.

Katie Ferraro (4m 17s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, Registered Dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby-led weaning here on the Baby Led Weaning Made Easy podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, leading you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning. If your baby were to choke on food, do you know what to do? Do you stick your finger in their mouth and do a finger swipe? Do you lean the baby forward in their highchair and administer back blows? No to both of those. For infant 6 to 12 months, you would extract your baby from the highchair and administer five back blows.

Katie Ferraro (4m 59s):

And if you didn't know that, I'm glad you're here and listening to today's episode. My guest is Brandon Doerksen from Thrive Training Institute. Brandon is a certified CPR Instructor. He's a father of three. I've worked with him for about six years at this point now. He is one of my favorite people. And I always learn something every time I chat with him. Brandon's goal with his work is to help alleviate anxiety around choking by empowering parents with a skillset to perform CPR in the event of an emergency. I personally recommend that all parents and caregivers take an infant refresher CPR course before their baby starts solid foods. I do take Brandon's CPR course each quarter. He and I also teamed up and we co-teach a choking prevention and response course.

Katie Ferraro (5m 39s):

So Brandon and I teach that in conjunction with a pediatric swallowing expert who's a speech language pathologist. This choking prevention and response course is really helpful for parents who are especially anxious about their baby's choking on food. And right now Brandon is gonna bundle his choking prevention course, the one we teach together with his standalone CPR course. You can get the both of those for $97. So if you are planning on taking either of them, this is as cheap as it comes. I think the choking course on its own usually costs $97. So if you wanna get your CPR taken care of plus all of that additional choking course content, there's no code. But there is a link in the description where you're listening to this. And if you go to the Shownotes for this episode at BLW podcast.com/390, you can click that link.

Katie Ferraro (6m 23s):

It'll take you right to the page where you can check out with the choking course plus CPR for $97 and he gives you lifetime access, which I really appreciate. It doesn't expire like some of these other courses that you buy might. I am an affiliate for Brandon's company, Thrive Training Institute. I'm one of their biggest fans. Brandon works with his wife Caitlyn, who is also lovely. They have children and they homeschool like doing all the things and they travel. I could not work with my husband. I really like her husband as a work friend, but like I personally could not work with my husband. So I admire people that can do that. And despite having done baby-led weaning with six of my own seven children, plus having helped so many other babies start solid foods in my pediatric nutrition practice, I've actually never had a baby choke. I have never had to administer back blows.

Katie Ferraro (7m 4s):

But after taking Brandon's CPR course after learning more about back blows from him in this interview, I feel very confident that I would know what to do if I had to. So with no further ado, I wanna welcome Brandon Doerksen back to the podcast. He's from Thrive Training Institute and he's gonna be talking about back blows for babies. And when do you administer CPR?

Brandon Doerksen (7m 26s):

Hey, excited to talk with your audience and, and hopefully alleviate some fears today.

Katie Ferraro (7m 31s):

I love how excited you get about alleviating choking fears. I, I don't know, some days I just like open up Instagram and like there's Brandon with his dummy baby. Which first of all, how many dummy babies do you have in your CPR household? Like is there like a dummy baby like closet or where do they live?

Brandon Doerksen (7m 43s):

I have three. I have Betsy, Charlie and Bill and all my kids love each of them sadly. But yes, they're a special part of our family.

Katie Ferraro (7m 50s):

I looked into them 'cause I was like, I we're looking for life-sized babies too to do some stuff, but they're so expensive. Like cost you more than your real children.

Brandon Doerksen (7m 59s):

I know. Yeah, that's the weekly, the weekly maintenance cost to keep my dummies happy and and demonstrating properly.

Katie Ferraro (8m 5s):

I love your reels on Instagram. We're gonna try to recreate this for the audio experience today we're talking about back blows for babies and when do I administer CPR. So the reason why I thought about doing this episode was because I've worked with you for, we've probably worked together for five years at this point. So I'm an affiliate for your CPR classes. So, I am not CPR certified. You are CPR certified. You run an online business that has CPR course. We've actually co-taught a choking prevention and response course that we do as well with a pediatric speech language pathologist. So we've done some work together, but I always recommend that my audience goes to buy your online CPR course. I'm a student, I take it every single quarter. I feel like I always learn something new. I really appreciate that you're always updating your content.

Katie Ferraro (8m 46s):

But I do see sometimes like other, especially dietitians kind of getting outta their lanes sometimes I know they're not CPR certified and they're, they're like demonstrating backblows. I heard and I, I don't wanna throw my own profession under the bus, but it was another dietitian the other day on Instagram talking about, okay, so this is how you do the Heimlich maneuver for a baby. and I was like, I'm pretty sure we don't do the Heimlich maneuver on a baby if I've taken an CPR red alert. What's the difference between the Heimlich and back blows, like we're talking about baby six to 12 months of age, like what specifically do parents need to know about CPR for that age group?

Brandon Doerksen (9m 15s):

Great question Katie, and, I think you know, if you're listening to this so, I'm gonna do my best to describe this so you can picture it whether you're driving or or on a walk right now. Back blows are what we start with for infants zero to 12 months. So if your infant was choking, you're never gonna give the Heimlich maneuver that's gonna be past 12 months and beyond for children, school age, children, toddlers and school age children and adults. And so the Heimlich maneuver is unnecessary and not really possible to do until your child is walking, standing up. And so what we, what's the benefit is when your child is six to 12 months, they're still light enough that you can hold them in your arm. And so you're actually not even gonna start with giving what we call chest thrust. So that's not, you wouldn't ever give the Heimlich, you would give chest thrust, but the first thing we can do, which has a lower risk of injury and a very high success rate, is giving back blows.

Brandon Doerksen (10m 3s):

Now before we talk about giving back blows, I think it's important that we talk about when would you need to give backblows to a baby. And so Katie, I think it's important that we talk first a little bit about gagging versus choking. 'cause parents are so concerned that they, they need to be prepared for Armageddon for this moment. Like my, my child's eating, they're gonna choke, I'm gonna have to rescue them and get them back to life. Call 911. and I would love for you to share just for a second, like how, how common is it that your child would gag on their food? Is that something that every child experiences?

Katie Ferraro (10m 33s):

Well, I'll start with your child choking on food is incredibly uncommon if you do three things, the three most important things you can do to reduce your baby's risk of choking on food is a waiting until they are ready to start solid food. So that means six months of age or six months adjusted age if they were born prematurely. Plus showing the other reliable signs of readiness to eat. And in my opinion as a person who specializes in infant feeding, the most important sign of readiness to eat is your baby sitting relatively unassisted. That means that they're demonstrating that they have the trunk support as well as the head and neck control to facilitate a safe swallow. So waiting until they're ready is number one, safe Highchair positioning is number two. And I know, we talk a lot about this in our choking prevention and response course, but ensuring that your baby's back is flat, no recline, reclining a baby opens their airway and increases the risk of Choking and having their feet resting flat on a solid foot plate So that when they do gag, which is very common and very different from choking, they can stomp their feet down, stabilize their body, use those developing mouth muscles to push that food that's bothering them forward so they don't choke on it.

Katie Ferraro (11m 35s):

That's when they gag. So safe high chair positioning is number two. And then safe food preparation is the third thing that we do to reduce choking risk. And that's what I teach inside of my programs is how to safely prepare foods for baby-led weaning. So there's not just one thing you do to reduce choking risk, but if you do those three things in unison, you are doing your part to reduce choking risk. And we know that there's no higher risk of choking with baby-led weaning compared to conventional adult-led spoon feeding. But that only holds true when parents are educated about reducing choking risks. So doing those three things will help. And then we always talk about choking is a rare but real risk. And you should know CPR because in the event that your baby chokes, you need to know how to save their lives. And CPR saves lives, the gagging stuff that's a natural and necessary part of learning how to eat.

Katie Ferraro (12m 19s):

And my audience knows you don't intervene when your baby is gagging. If your baby is gagging and they're six months of age and sitting on their own, they can recover from that gag on their own. If you lunge at the baby, if you slam 'em on the back when they're actively gagging, not choking, if you startle them, they, what do you do when you get startled? Yep, you suck air in.

Brandon Doerksen (12m 35s):

Yes you suck air in

Katie Ferraro (12m 36s):

You can cause that harmless gag to turn into a harmful choke. So knowing the difference between gagging and choking is important for parents. But knowing what to do in the rare instance that your baby chokes is also important. So I would say, when do you do CPR? When would you administer back blows? It's when your baby is choking on food. Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

Brandon Doerksen (14m 42s):

Exactly and I Katie, you laid a, I hope you guys are taking notes. You've heard it before.

Katie Ferraro (14m 46s):

They're probably so sick of hearing it.

Brandon Doerksen (14m 49s):

Well you need to hear it so that that it's the unknown is what causes fear and, and the baby-led weaning approach. What I love about it and why we've done it with our, we didn't do it with our first child. We, we were afraid to feed them. We only gave them purees. And it's like at some point you get there, you know, I I'm sure you've heard horror stories of parents being so afraid that their child will choke. They give purees until they're three years old at, at which

Katie Ferraro (15m 8s):

Point, and it's like they gag excessively at 12 months and they're in feeding therapy and most feeding therapists will tell you so much of what they see in one to 2-year-old was totally preventable. Had that child been allowed to experiment and explore with different textures starting at six months of age.

Brandon Doerksen (15m 20s):

You have it there and I think so it's the baby-led weaning process I think is so beneficial because when the child is putting food in their mouth and you can assist so, I know you, you show the right way to assist them, there's a lower risk that they're gonna have something in their mouth that they weren't intending to put there. And that's when we have choking episodes happen. Think about as an adult, anytime you've had an experience where you maybe were, were actually choking something went down your throat in a way that you weren't ready to swallow. And it's, it's those moments that are a concern. So your child learning how to properly by following Katie's advice, learning how to properly introduce solids and them feeding, starting to feed is a natural process. Gagging are those training wheels that will, that will protect the airway.

Brandon Doerksen (16m 1s):

They will keep them from choking and so I wanna dive into is those rare instances, which most of the time are not around food. Children do choke on food. I believe a a child's every five days does choke and die on food in the United States. So we, we need to be prepared.

Katie Ferraro (16m 13s):

That's a child though. I, I always wonder, I always wonder. That doesn't mean a baby that's encapsulating the entire pediatric population and those children are running around. If you dive deep in that data, a lot of that choking death is from children who are mobile. You are in a lucky spot when your baby is in that highchair. That's why we only feed children in the highchair. I don't want parents to think every five days a baby dies 'cause it's a, it's a child there, right?

Brandon Doerksen (16m 33s):

That's, that's a very important thing to clarify. So choking on food is incredibly rare, but we, we, you want to know what to do if your child were to choke on food like Katie said, oftentimes it's gonna be actually after you're outside of that, that six to 12 months. And kids are mobile kids, we don't have eyes on the kid. We don't know what they're getting into. How they're grabbing a bag of grapes, grabbing a bag of marshmallows, you name it. Jawbreakers things that are as we know are not safe to be running around eating and some are not even safe at at ages they're being introduced. And so, I wanna give you some really practical things to look for that you would need to administer back blows for your infant six to 12 months. So let's dive into that again, signs of gagging, the tongues thrusting forward, their coughing air is coming in and out.

Brandon Doerksen (17m 15s):

Their cheeks might even be red, they might even be crying. They could even vomit Katie, you have incredible real life videos and stories and of people just, this is what a child looks like gagging. Yes, this is all completely normal. So familiarize yourself with that. 'cause it's not pleasant. I mean, nobody likes gagging. Nobody likes seeing their child gag again. It's there to protect your child when it's a concern. And when as a CPR Instructor through our course, what we put together is, is an action plan. Action steps to take. If your child were to choke and so choking is described or portrayed as when they're not getting oxygen for your infant, six to 12 months. They are very oxygen dependent. That means that their respiratory rate is very high, they're breathing a lot more frequently than we are.

Brandon Doerksen (17m 56s):

Just look at your child the next time, even right now, just look at your child. They're gonna be breathing more frequently. And so because of that oxygen dependence, because of that higher respiratory rate, they're gonna begin to lose that natural skin tone. They're gonna start to turn blue. And because they're, they're not getting oxygen. And so if they're not breathing, you will know. Gagging they're gonna, they're gonna be getting, they're still getting oxygen. If they're choking, the lips are turning blue, they're unable to make noise, they're not crying. And it's at that point we need to take action. Now I'll pause right here. Most parents think that action would be to reach into their mouth. Of course if there's a, let's just say a fat piece of bacon that was sitting on the table that they grabbed and the string is hanging outta their mouth yet pull it out of their mouth.

Brandon Doerksen (18m 37s):

Don't blindly stick your fingers down their throat. This actually years ago, I think like 60, 70 years ago, it was actually taught to do what's called a finger sweep. With that being said, a finger sweep is not recommended because you can one push the object further down, which is what we're trying to get out. And two, you actually activate the gag reflex which closes up the throat, which closes everything up. And we're trying to get this object out. And so the latest guidelines for a child and infant six to 12 months is to give back blows. That's how it's taught with the Red Cross. That's how I teach it with Thrive Training Institute, because there's the lowest risk of injury. We can use gravity as our friend. So let me walk you through what you would do if your child were to choke.

Brandon Doerksen (19m 17s):

They're not getting air, they're not coughing, they're turning blue and you as their parent need to be the hero. Now most people think that step one is to call 911. If there's two people present, sure have the other person call 911. It takes six to eight minutes for an ambulance to get to you. If your child is choking for six to eight minutes, they will not be alive when the ambulance gets there. And that's a sobering reality and that's why we, we teach what we do 'cause we want to end parents anxiety around choking. But you need to know what to do. Otherwise you're gonna think that your strategy is to call 911 and wait. and I never want any parent that's listening to this to think that the only hope they have if their child choke, is to call 911 And wait, I'm not willing to give that as the solution 'cause sometimes if you even call 9 1 1, the dispatcher will tell you don't do anything until we get there.

Brandon Doerksen (19m 59s):

I've received countless stories of parents that have messaged me that said, I called 911, my child was choking on an ice cube. They said don't do anything or they're choking on this. They, they didn't advise us on what to do. And so I want to give you back that power. And that's why we're offering our choking Prevention course and our CPR course together in this podcast because we want you to be equipped to feed your child and to respond. If your child were to have a Choking emergency, So that first step you take, it's not to call 911, it's to assist your child. This is a care first situation, not a call first scenario. So if your child is in the highchair, which is where they should be eating, you're going to support their cheekbones safely, remove them from the high chair, you're gonna place them over your less dominant arm. For me, that's my left arm. You're gonna my left arm face them face down on your hand supporting their cheekbones at a 45 degree angle.

Brandon Doerksen (20m 47s):

For those of of you that didn't like geometry, that's basically just aim them, aim their head below their hips, make sure their head is below their hips. We're gonna use gravity as our friend and then give five back blows with the heel of your hand. That's gonna be right between their shoulder blades. So while you're supporting their cheekbones, 'cause we don't wanna cause any spinal injuries in rescuing them from choking. You have their cheekbone supported, their head is below their hips, give five firm back blows between the shoulder blades. A lot of people ask, do I need to give all five? If you give one, you'll know that the object came out 'cause you'll see it, it'll come outta their mouth and fall on the ground. So you can check between each one. Just don't take a long time. So one and you can check 2, 3, 4, 5.

Brandon Doerksen (21m 28s):

Most of the time it wouldn't take more than five backlogs to remove that object. And this rings true for, for infants and toddlers of, of in different ages that parents have used back blows. That air that's inside the body below the object then forcefully shoots that object up and outta the airway and your child starts breathing again.

Katie Ferraro (21m 46s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back. I remember you saying that when we were designing the curriculum for the choking prevention and response course 'cause even with all my own children, all the babies I've fed, I've never had a child choke on food and I've never had to administer back blows. We obviously practice a lot with the dummies, et cetera, but it gave me good peace of mind to know that in the vast majority of these cases, if I do these right, it's gonna be out within the first five. Talk a little bit about adrenaline, like parents study the technique and, but like when this is actually happening, I always think like the back blows is the most instinctive thing. Get that baby out, flip it upside down, slam it on the back.

Katie Ferraro (22m 28s):

I know that's not the technical language, but like can you talk a little bit about the adrenaline kicking in? I mean it's still important to know CPR skills, but knowing that back blows come first, it's so important. If you remember nothing from this podcast episode, it should be that if your baby is choking on food, is that correct?

Brandon Doerksen (22m 42s):

Absolutely. And and parents say, I don't wanna feel like I'm, I'm terrified they'll feel I won't know what to do or feel anxious if they were choking as a CPR Instructor, I will be, I I will freak out if my child is choking, I won't be calm. That adrenaline's actually there to like give you that laser focus to take action and, and hopefully if you've been through repetition and facing that fear ahead of time, knowing what to do, having a plan in place, that will be your, what you'll fall back into is it's not gonna be panic. It's not gonna be don't know what to do. It's not gonna be just sitting there looking at them choking. It's gonna be oh, my gosh, I listen to podcasts, I need to get back blows. And so your adrenaline is gonna kick in and it's gonna give you that clarity to do what you, what you know to do. And that's why it's crucial that we know ahead of time it's not a good time to learn something in the, in the midst of an emergency.

Katie Ferraro (23m 25s):

Brandon, when do you switch from holding the baby over your non-dominant arm, you know, supporting their cheekbones. They have their head below their hips, you do the, when does that like expire and we move to the next stage, whatever that is. Like toddler CPR.

Brandon Doerksen (23m 40s):

Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. And that's some of the most viral videos that our audience shares is the difference. Infant versus child CPR techniques for choking. And that cutoff is at 12 months of age and now with international guidelines, they have to give a a firm 12 mark month. Again, the the, the goal is the function of what you're trying to create, which is creating force for that object to come out at 12 months. Most children are able to stand up unsupported at this time and at 12 months they're also at a weight where it's not easy to hold them on your arm. And so at 12 months, instead of just placing them on your arm, You can lean them forward so you're, you're less dominant arm you would reach around them while standing behind them and lean them forward and you're still gonna give those back blows.

Brandon Doerksen (24m 23s):

They just don't have to be fully laying on your arm like they would before 12 months. And so really it's about being able to proficiently give those back blows and from six to 12 months it's easiest to do it on your arm. And after 12 months is when you lean them forward so that you're able to, you know, you're not strong enough to hold them on your arm at that age.

Katie Ferraro (24m 43s):

Well this has been so helpful. I know sometimes talking about this stuff and you're like, I wish I could be seeing it. Yes, you should definitely follow Brandon on Instagram at Thrive Training Institute. His videos are so helpful to see the practice of what it should look like. Like that's why we share all of these gagging videos on our Instagram. It was so funny the other day, Brandon someone's like, I know you have a lot of gagging videos on Instagram and YouTube, but could you share some of baby's choking? And I was like, no, because if a baby's choking you should not be videotaping it and I never would. And by the way, if you do those three things that we talked about at the top of the episode correctly, your baby is not going to choke on food. They're gonna gag like crazy. But what I don't want you to do is to mistake a gag for a choke. You don't start administering back blows when your baby is gagging on food. But if your baby is choking, you do need to know the basic CPR.

Katie Ferraro (25m 25s):

And so Brandon, tell them a little bit about the special co bundle that you made. We're gonna have a link in the Shownotes for this episode that's going to give our audience what?

Brandon Doerksen (25m 35s):

Absolutely. So we came together, Katie and I, and another one of our colleagues, to create a choking Prevention and response course. so that will give you all the things that you can do to lower the risk of choking. And we also combine that with my full CPR course for parents. So typically those two courses sell separately for $97 each because you're, you're here and we know that people that are motivated to listen and pay attention, we want to give you a special offer to be able to get those two courses instead of paying $200 to get them for just $97 for the bundle. And inside of that course, like you said, Katie, we're gonna talk about high chair positioning, the things that you need to do and understanding the oral development for your infant when you're going to introduce solid foods and paired with your courses. It gives parents a, a bulletproof plan to prevent choking.

Brandon Doerksen (26m 17s):

And then inside of the CPR course, I'll show you the different things you can do if, if you do face your worst case scenario for your infant, toddler or school-aged child, you get that full access to learn CPR from home, to test your knowledge, to download the workbooks and make sure wow, I've got it. And we make both of these courses very time efficient. 'cause we want you to get the knowledge fast and not have it just be another thing on your to-do list,

Katie Ferraro (26m 39s):

There's no code that you need if you click that link. It's not available on either of our websites, but if you click that link, it will go to that special offer. Again, that's choking prevention and response bundled with CPR for $97. It's certainly as low as you can get. Is that lifetime access Brandon?

Brandon Doerksen (26m 55s):

Yes. And that will, we will give you lifetime access to both courses. Again, like Katie said, this link is not anywhere else. We don't promote this anywhere else, but just from our affiliate partnership and working on so many projects together, we want to be able to give you guys this offer today.

Katie Ferraro (27m 6s):

Thank you. I appreciate that because I, I've always want this, if there's only one course you can take, you definitely should take CPR. But for parents who are particularly anxious about their babies choking on food, I always recommend the Choking Prevention and Response course. Like even when we were designing the curriculum, I was like, this is a lot. But there are some parents who just want that level of knowledge and we created that course for you. But I think it's wonderful. You can get both of those. That link will be in the description where you're listening to the podcast, but it will also be on the Shownotes for this episode, which You can find at BLWpodcast.com/390. Brandon, thank you so much for coming on to talk about Back blows. Thank you for all of the work that you do. I think you've really heightened the, the importance of CPR among this community.

Katie Ferraro (27m 47s):

Everyone knows that you should take a CPR class before you have a baby. But like six months later when you start solid foods, I always say, I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, let alone the particulars of a CPR class I took before my baby was born. You're facing a different set of challenges as you go to start solid foods. The most important thing you can do is to educate yourself as to what you do in the event that your baby does have a choking incident.

Brandon Doerksen (28m 6s):

Thanks Katie.

Katie Ferraro (28m 8s):

I love talking to Brandon. Like there were parts in the interview, he's like, Hey, can you hear my kids screaming in the background? and I was like, no. He's like, I was like, do you wanna go check on him? He's like, no, no, he's totally fine. I know his, his wife was with the children at all time. Please don't worry. But I just admire like their ability to work together and run this business. and I have seen the name of their company is Thrive, but I have seen them thrive. I have seen their business grow. I have seen their courses get better. I love working with Brandon. I love that we got to co-teach the Choking Prevention and Response course. And again, that course Bundled with CPR is available for you now for $97. There's no code. The only way to get the offer is to click the link where you are listening to this podcast in the description. It will be there. It'll also be on the Shownotes page for this episode, which you can find at BLW podcast.com/390.

Katie Ferraro (28m 55s):

Get your CPR knowledge on. It's important to do that. And for those of you who are particularly anxious about choking that Choking Prevention and Response course, I kind of mentioned it in the interview, but it's a little much. At first I was like, this is too much. But it's like, no, there, there is a type of parent who really, really wants all this information, who's just terrified about choking and education is key. Education is key for reducing choking risk. We know that the research bears it out. So I, hope you enjoy that course. If you do decide to take advantage of that offer, it's a lifetime offer. As long as this podcast is up, that link will be live is what he told me. And also those courses don't expire, which I really appreciate. So again, head to BLWpodcast.com/390 or click the link where you're listening to this episode.

Katie Ferraro (29m 36s):

Thank you for listening to this episode and thank you to our sponsors at AirWave Media. If you guys like podcasts, I know you like podcasts, but if you like the ones that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from AirWave Media. We're online at BLWpodcast.com. Thanks for listening. I'll see you next time. If you're interested in doing baby-led weaning, but you're not exactly sure, like what does that mean? What does it look like? Where do I start? My online program called Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro has everything you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods and get them to eat over 100 foods before they turn one.

Katie Ferraro (30m 17s):

Whether you're terrified of choking or maybe you've started but you feel like you're feeding your baby the same foods over and over 'cause you don't know what to feed next or you're looking for guidance on how to prepare foods safely for your baby's age and stage. My program has exactly what you need. There's five hours of concise self-paced video training. You can knock this thing out during nap time this week. You also get access to my 100 First Foods content library so you can see and learn exactly how to prep all of the 100 foods as well as my original 100 Days Meal Plan. I've been refining this program for the last seven years. Just today, a mom wrote to me and told me that the 100 Days Meal Plan has been a quote game changer for her busy lifestyle. When you join the program, you also get access to over 100 phase two combination food recipes.

Katie Ferraro (30m 58s):

So you're gonna try out the trickier textures, push your baby's palate. And what's cool about these recipes is your whole family will enjoy them. So everything you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods is inside of the program. It's created by me, a Registered Dietitian who specializes in infant feeding. If you're tired of hunting and pecking around the internet trying to piece this stuff together on your own, I put it all in one convenient place for you. I invite you to check out the Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro program that's at babyledweaning.co again, that website is babyledweaning.co and click on program to learn more.