Why You Shouldn't Brush Your Baby's Teeth with Dawn Winkelmann, MS, CCC-SLP

Katie Ferraro (0s):

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Dawn Winkelmann (1m 53s):

Baby Lit Oral Care teaches caregivers to give control or to follow baby's lead. Some babies will just kind of lean in and kind of open up their mouth and they want you to brush. Great. What are we teaching? We are teaching that you are giving me nonverbal communication that it's okay for me to brush your teeth instead of holding them down and kind of brushing it right.

Katie Ferraro (2m 14s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in Baby-Led Weaning. Here on the Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using Baby-Led Weaning. Do you brush your baby's teeth or their gums if they don't have teeth yet? And if you're like me, I would've totally rolled my eyes at this when I was a new mom with my first kid because I'm sorry, A, who has time for that? And B, why does it really matter?

Katie Ferraro (2m 55s):

They're baby teeth, they're just gonna fall out. We've covered oral care pretty in depth on the podcast in the past and it actually is important, but it's still annoying. I'm not actually sure what's more annoying putting sunscreen on kids or helping them brush their teeth. They're both obnoxious, but they're both important. But nobody's invented an alternative to adult-led sunscreen applications. So we're gonna focus on Baby-led oral care. What if babies could play a bigger role in brushing their own teeth? Don Winkleman is here today to talk to you about Baby-led oral care and teach us about how and why babies benefit when they have more control when it comes to their oral care routine. So in this episode we're gonna talk about why the old way of brushing a baby's teeth leads to resistance and battles and eventually poor oral health and even poor speech outcomes.

Katie Ferraro (3m 45s):

We'll talk about how and When to start implementing a baby-led oral care program and then how to do that if you haven't started it yet, because I get it, you have other things going on right now, but hopefully by the end of this episode you'll also know How to position your baby and let them lead the way in both gum and tooth brushing. Dawn is a speech language pathologist, she's also the product designer for ezpz. That's a company that usually makes feeding gear, but they've been doing a lot of pre feeding tools lately. And I have to say I am very impressed by the baby-led toothbrush that ezpz recently brought to market. I know John's been talking about it and working on it for a long time. I've recently started using it with babies in my practice for infant feeding and it just makes like one thing that's annoying in your life a little bit less annoying 'cause the baby has a bigger role in it.

Katie Ferraro (4m 31s):

So I want you also to know if you wanna check out this product, the baby-led toothbrush, you can get it at ezpzfun.com. My affiliate discount code for ezpz is Katie10. And with no further ado, here is Ms. Dawn talking all about why you should not be the one brushing your baby's teeth anymore.

Dawn Winkelmann (4m 54s):

So I just did a recent photo shoot with five month old twins and we were working on open cup drinking for this photo shoot and I asked parents, you know, Hey, how's oral care going with your twins? And they're like, oh, we haven't started oral care because my babies don't have teeth yet. And I said, oh, well let me show you the ezpz toothbrush that I designed and it's a baby-led toothbrush. And so I put the toothbrush on each one of their trays because we had just gotten done doing some open cup drinking and the babies picked up the toothbrush and just started munching the toothbrush at first. So they just kind of like chewing on it a little bit. And then within a few seconds they actually started brushing their teeth and the parents were like, what?

Dawn Winkelmann (5m 38s):

This is crazy. I didn't think that my babies could like brush their teeth. And I was like, yeah. So developmentally these milestones are babies can pick up an object and bring it to their mouth, right? Just like they would with teethers. Well, they can do the same thing with a toothbrush, right? Basically, what are babies doing when they're using a teeter? They're munching, they're chewing, they're rubbing, they're brushing their gums. So why can't babies be allowed to have a baby-led approach to oral care and be able to learn how to brush their teeth? And so the parents were like, this is crazy. I had no idea. I didn't think that my babies could do this. And so it was just a fun, cute sensory experience.

Katie Ferraro (6m 19s):

You know, I think we have to like a three-way race between you, me and Andrea Olson from Go Diaper Free. Like what's weirder a baby pottying themselves, a baby feeding themselves or a baby brushing their own teeth with, it's like amazing. Like babies can do so many more things than we give them credit for. And I know in the past you and I have done a lot of episodes about food and feeding. Today's interview is gonna go in a little bit of a different direction because we're going to chat about oral care for babies. You recently designed the baby-led toothbrush for ezpz. I'm curious what inspired you to kind of branch out in this direction?

Dawn Winkelmann (6m 51s):

Yeah, so I've always been passionate about oral care because as a speech pathologist and infant feeding specialist, I have to assess a baby's mouth before I start feeding or before I start speech therapy. So I need to assess and in some cases I have to clean the baby's mouth. That's part of the regimen for being able to put food in the mouth, right? Just like we wouldn't normally eat food without cleaning our oral care. So it's always been something that has been a part of a feeding specialist's life. If you're feeding a baby, you're cleaning their their mouth before we start trying to get blood flow to the oral cavity to be able to have a better sensory experience for feeding. So I've done that my whole entire career.

Dawn Winkelmann (7m 32s):

But what ends up happening is that when I go to initiate oral care or when I ask a parent to initiate oral care before we start solids, either the parent says, oh I've, I've never actually cleaned my baby's mouth because they don't have teeth, or they haven't started or established an oral care regimen. Or they're using like the finger toothbrushes and just kind of holding the baby down and kind of brushing the their gums. And so the baby is, is really standoffish and when they're starting solids, they're really having some difficulties with things kind of going into their mouth. So I coined the term baby-led oral care in 2003 and I've been presenting about it nationally and internationally on the subject of baby-led oral care, really letting baby-led the way.

Dawn Winkelmann (8m 20s):

It's really the basis of, you know, Baby-Led Weaning and just kind of using the fundamentals of Baby-Led Weaning that we're going to follow babies lead and allow baby to kind of lead the way in, in being able to put something into their mouth. Whether we're putting, allowing a baby to put a toothbrush into their mouth or allowing them to put a piece of food in their mouth. That's the same concept. We're allowing babies to learn about this. And the more that babies learn about an activity, the more they want to do that activity. So I really decided to make a toothbrush that is baby-led, make a toothbrush that allows baby to be in control, make a toothbrush that allows baby to really control oral care instead of having oral care done to them.

Dawn Winkelmann (9m 6s):

We want them to be able to kind of experience that and also decrease the battles. The two things that parents always tell me about feeding is a battle and oral care is a battle. And what do they both have in common? They both have in common that something is going into a baby's mouth and usually it's parents are trying to kind of force that because they think they need to, right? I mean, we hear so much that parents are like, I was told that I was supposed to do it this way. And, and really what we want to do is show them that there is another approach that allows babies to control this and that they're really good at it. They're really good at it. And if we let them do it, then it's, it's a way for them to kind of have some control of that object.

Dawn Winkelmann (9m 53s):

And I always tell families that if, if you're allowing the baby to hold onto the toothbrush and letting them kind of brush it itself, you can take your index finger and go underneath the elbow and help facilitate that so that we're getting more of that back and forth motion. We can absolutely do that. Whether your baby's doing this for five seconds or five minutes, it's really allowing them to kind of have that control and really facilitate a really good oral care regimen at the very beginning. Right? Baby lit oral care teaches caregivers to give control or to follow baby's lead. Some babies will just kind of lean in and kind of open up their mouth and they want you to brush, great, what are we teaching?

Dawn Winkelmann (10m 36s):

We are teaching that you are giving me nonverbal communication that it's okay for me to brush your teeth instead of holding them down and kind of brushing it, right? So we're getting these conversational turns from babies non-verbally to say, Hey, this is what I want. I, I'm still having control over this. If I close my mouth, you're not going to force it. And we're establishing trust. It's the same thing for feeding, right? We're wanting BB to be in control. We want to establish trust. We want to have a good foundation of a lifetime of feeding skills and a lifetime of oral skills. So it may seem like a different direction doing oral care products when I normally design feeding products. But actually baby-led oral care is a pre feeding skill that your baby can practice and that it can prepare them for eating as well as establishing good oral health.

Katie Ferraro (11m 25s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

Ritual (11m 34s):

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Katie Ferraro (13m 1s):

So as a speech and language pathologist, you are certainly, as you've shown us interested in oral care for babies. I know that there are pediatric dentists and others out there who recommend wiping baby's gums down with like a washcloth after milk feeds. Is that a recommended practice or now that we have the baby-led toothbrush in the world, I'm assuming that's probably more desirable and could you expound upon that a little bit?

Dawn Winkelmann (13m 23s):

I've never been a fan of using a washcloth on babies. And the reason why is when I was in the hospital working alongside pulmonologists, every single time a baby was having difficulties with feeding, we would look into their throat and sometimes see that it, there was tons of lint and string. So when we use a washcloth lint from that washcloth goes down into the gum line, little strings from that washcloth can go down to the gum line. If the parent sees it, then they can go into the mouth and kind of pull out those strings. But I've brought out lint like loads of lint, suctioning that out of baby's mouths because of them, you know, wiping the gums and the baby kind of like chewing on them a little bit.

Dawn Winkelmann (14m 6s):

I'm not a fan of that. If that's what parents end up having and that's the only resource, then just make sure that lint is, you know, the, the cloth is lint free and that. Yeah.

Katie Ferraro (14m 17s):

What about those like muslin cloths?

Dawn Winkelmann (14m 18s):

Yeah, so they can still have some lint that comes off that just don't have as much of it. And the other thing with that, well and if it, this is a newborn to about three months of age, you can still use a baby lead toothbrush like the ezpz baby-led toothbrush to kind of like brush those gums instead of using a towel or a washcloth. Or if you do wanna use a washcloth as soon as your baby turns three months of age and is able to do their oral care, you want to be able to do that. 'cause previous to a baby lid oral care toothbrush that I designed, there wasn't a lot of options. They were using longhand toothbrushes using a washcloth or using a finger toothbrush.

Dawn Winkelmann (14m 60s):

And really what we want to establish is we want to establish a routine. We want this to be baby-led. So some families are like, oh I'll just, you know, wet that washcloth and let my baby kind of suck on it. And then more lint, right, that we are cleaning that gumline as baby is chewing and rubbing that cloth onto that. But again, we're sucking the lint, think of your lint dryer, we're sucking the lint and the strings off of that and baby is ingesting that.

Katie Ferraro (15m 25s):

Dawn, ideally how old can a baby be to start baby-led oral care? I feel like I'm hearing you say three months. Is that too soon? Too early?

Dawn Winkelmann (15m 34s):

Yes. Three months. So three months is average age developmentally that we're looking for baby to use their polymer grasp and grasp an object and bring that object to their mouth and start chewing, mouthing, exploring and brushing. So, and they do that with teethers, they do that with all objects or keys, right? That's basically what they're doing. So we can use that developmental phase that baby's already going through and have the end of that handle instead of it being an oral development tool or a teether, having it be a toothbrush so that babies can actually work on that back and forth motion. And really all we need to do is have a little bit of pressure onto that gumline, have there be some friction to be able to take off the sugars off of the gumline from breast milk or formula and really facilitate baby being a part of that oral regimen and having that be more of a routine.

Dawn Winkelmann (16m 28s):

Just like we brush our teeth twice a day, having the opportunities for babies to brush twice a day. And I can't tell like hundreds of families who have bought the product have said, my baby is wanting to do oral care three, four times a day. And I'm like, yeah they probably are because it one, it feels good. Two, a really important thing which is very similar to Baby-Led Weaning is baby now has sensory control. They can actually, if they feel like a tooth is starting to merge, they can take the toothbrush and you'll see 'em going up and down onto those gum lines and then I'm like, Ooh, looks like, you know, baby's gonna get a tooth there. They're able to to manage their sensory and motor movements of their mouth.

Dawn Winkelmann (17m 8s):

And what this is gonna do for parents is less battles for toothbrushing, right? That is number one. Number two, less crying, less tantrums because baby is able to say, Hey, if I take the toothbrush and I rub this down just like I do with an oral development tool, is just giving more tools in Bebe's toolbox to be able to control what is happening in their mouth to actually calm their sensory system just like we do. You know, what do we do to calm our sensory system? We can eat some crunchy foods or eat some smushy foods or we can chew gum or we can chew on the head of our pencil. We do the same thing to be able to calm our sensory system and we really want babies to be able to do that too and have them be independent with that.

Dawn Winkelmann (17m 52s):

So when they transition, you know, they use a toothbrush three months of age, four months of age, five months, six months of age. Now they're, they're used to being able to put things into their mouth that they can transition to food that actually help with that sensory development too. So that's a wonderful way to just kind of that about baby-led oral care.

Katie Ferraro (18m 13s):

Dawn, I love the design of the new ezpz baby-led toothbrush. I'm curious what design features that you put into the product that might not be evident when you just look at it like, oh cute toothbrush, but what's really going on?

Dawn Winkelmann (18m 26s):

The toothbrush, if you're familiar with ezpz products, is the same handle of the tiny pops that I designed as well as the oral development tools that I designed and the tiny spoon that I designed. So all, they all have the same handles. So when we are going from, you know, a teething phase to a feeding phase, to a brushing phase, to a sensory phase, it's all the same handle. And why that's so important for parents to know is that your baby is going to be successful because they already have the motor planning of this handle. So we are gonna be able to help them achieve success with feeding if they're using the spoon, you know, with teething, with, with nourishment, with being able to allow them to have that sensory capability.

Dawn Winkelmann (19m 14s):

So it's baby-led for a reason. And also the ezpz baby-led toothbrush is the first silicone toothbrush explicitly designed for baby lead movement. So we want them to independently grab that, hold that control it, participate in their own oral care. I also have the sensory bumps on the toothbrush. So the toothbrush is two-sided, so it allows babies to brush the top and bottom gums at the same time. So if we're only getting baby to kind of brush for five seconds, we'll we brush the upper and lower gum at the same time, which is exciting. But it also has sensory bumps and soft bristles that provide sensory stimulation and encourage them to want to brush their gums.

Dawn Winkelmann (19m 55s):

And these sensory bumps are very similar to other products. So similar to the oral development tools so that they're again, knowing that they can get this sensory input and want them to actually brush their gums. So it's really important for parents to kind of, you know, know that this toothbrush is designed to be baby-led, it's designed for babies, chunky little hands to hold and really help facilitate that. And it's 100% silicone so there's no plastic involved. So we're not gonna hurt baby's gums or butting teeth in that. It's, it's really nice shape. And then this is aged for three months of age all the way to baby's first molars.

Dawn Winkelmann (20m 37s):

And so once we get to the molar stage, that's when babies tend to kind of bite and hold on and kind of pull. So we want to be able to move to a more durable toothbrush and being able to go into harder bristles. 'cause these are silicone bristles very similar to the bristles on a finger brush. And so, you know, the first molars come into play anytime between 11 and 20 months of age. So this toothbrush can last for a long time for babies. And these are some of the features that I think parents will really find exciting.

Katie Ferraro (21m 18s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back. Just curious how the reception from pediatric dentist has been about the ezpz baby-led toothbrush. I know they usually recommend a soft bristled brush. Do they find the silicone to be as effective once the child does have teeth?

Dawn Winkelmann (21m 36s):

Yeah, it's been so exciting to see how airway dentists as well as pediatric dentists have kind of jumped on the bandwagon with this product. When I first spoke at a dentist conference about baby-led oral care, I was flooded with questions after the presentation from pediatric dentists and airway dentists saying that this is amazing, like I'm gonna be able to, to recommend this to all the clients. Like, you know, when I spoke at a dental convention and we hadn't launched the product yet, I was telling them about baby blood oral care and that it was launching, we had hundreds of pre-orders for this and I'm excited that, you know, with all of ezpz products, they're all amazing and they're fantastic.

Dawn Winkelmann (22m 19s):

But really seeing the ENTs, the orthodontists, the airway dentists, the pediatric dentists all not only supporting this product but actually becoming retailers for us, they're selling 'em in their offices and that's never happened before. So seeing all of these medical professionals just, you know, think that this concept of baby-led oral care is so good and that they believe in it so much and actually seeing their patients, their, you know, five, six month old babies like using it, they're, they're blown away. Another thing that's been really exciting for me is that how many pediatric dentists are purchasing the products and giving 'em away for their first dental visits.

Dawn Winkelmann (23m 0s):

So as we all kind of, you know, as adults we always go to the dentist and they give you like, you know, toothbrush and some, you know, toothpaste. Well pediatric dentists do the same thing, which I didn't really know that they give these little goodie bags to their pediatric patients too. And so many dentists are buying this to give to their infants. And so that was just really encouraging and very exciting and the dental community has been so supportive as you know, we've talked about this before, Katie, like sometimes, you know, the feeding community can be controversial and you know, their community not so nice comments. But man, the dentistry community is just so nice and it's been so exciting to see the reception and the encouragement from that profession and just, you know, constantly being asked to speak at these events and, and really having a great medical team and having some of the products that are designed be so widely accepted by them has been really, really humbling.

Katie Ferraro (24m 1s):

Well it's been fascinating hearing about baby-led oral care. I think we're all gonna be hearing a lot more about that. Where can our audience go to learn more about the ezpz baby lead toothbrush and to go get one to try it out with their own baby So they can get it at ezpzfun.com? Of course, use your code K10, they can get it at Nordstrom's and they can probably get it at a pediatric dentist near you. Thank You so much, Dawn. Thank You. Okay, what do you think, are you sold on baby-led oral care, baby-led toothbrushing? I know it sounds a little woowoo and out there, but take it from me as someone who was highly skeptical at the beginning. I have been using this approach more recently with some of the babies I've been working with and it is really cool to see them like grabbing it outta your hand and wanting to do it for themself.

Katie Ferraro (24m 48s):

I'll be interested to see and learn more about how the pediatric dental community is taking to this. But I really applaud Dawn for kind of opening our eyes up to this idea that, listen, just like babies can feed themselves and my friend Andrea Olson from Go Diaper Free and elimination communication, she's all about how babies can potty themselves. It's like, can we get babies to do more of this on their own? We're not pushing them to do something they can't yet, but letting them have a role in it versus shoving a toothbrush in their mouth and making them hate everything related to oral care. I think Dawn is definitely onto something. So again, you can check out the baby-led toothbrush at ezpzfun.com. My affiliate discount code for ezpz is Katie110. And the show notes for this episode will be available at blwpodcast.com/456.

Katie Ferraro (25m 30s):

A special thank you to our partners at AirWave Media. If you like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from AirWave. We're online at blwpodcast.com. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you next time.